Faustus

I have long wanted to reply on this topic, but failing a full post: Your attention is invited to a book: THE IMPERIAL ANIMAL (1971) - (catch the author's names). . . Lionel Tiger & Robin Fox) This book explores Animal Behavior and thus of course Human behavior and one of those is the adolescent in society (some notes: As regards being a teenager otherwise defined by most who

I

Yes, isn't it wonderful? The Amazon site gives an excerpt that includes Charles Martin's poetic translation of Ovid's description of the creation of mankind: And even though all other animals lean forward and look down toward the ground, he gave to man a face that is uplifted, and ordred him to stand erect and look directly up into the vaulted heavens and turn his countenance to meet the stars; the earth, that was so lately rude and formless, was changed by taking on the shapes of men. Beyond comparisons with the creation story in Milton's Paradise Lost, Martin's use of language is absolutely sublime. I agree with what The Hudson Review wrote: "Charles Martin's new translation of the Metamorphoses, the latest in a 500-year-old tradition, both gives us an Ovid for our times and reminds us that in our times Ovid is everywhere." -- Nephele Thanks Nephele, To say that was beautiful hardly qualifies to describe it; andstellar wouldn't even come close! It exceeds my request. I'll clip it and keep it in my copy of The Twelve Caesars Faustus

Thank you Nephele Your corrections are always so gentle. .

Thanks for all those beautiful (dandelion, ugh), anniversary flowers: I was most interested in the Hyacinth. The color purple explains the lines: I sometimes think that never blows so red The rose as where some buried Caesar Bled; That every hyacinth the garden wears Dropt in its lap from some once lovely head and why Fitzgerald chose the Hyacinth. I've wondered about that. . . And the daffodil: Being a male of the knuckle dragging type. (What does that say about UNRV membership?) I wanted to be reminded of what a daffodil was like. On that I have an anecdote: From our own local Knight (Bobby) at a press conference, quote, Sir Robert:

Now that was quaint, which is another word for cute in feminine parlance. And then there is mystery. I'm going to soon check one of those out. Now for dumb: Another mystery to me is rhyming poetry in latin translations from english. I can only guess that it's done by ignoring sentence structure, and arranging the words to fit the needs. But I do recall seeing some very eloquent and seemingly perfect examples of good rhyming poetry masterfully done in this way. I always marvel at this. Can anyone recall a good example of that so that we could take a look at it? A stanza perhaps. . . Another FAV I like to use in examples: All words Aug. Augustus, Auctor, Augeo (increase) Aug =light? (others) do we get the word Awe* from those? Certainly the two letter elements abbreviation "Au" for gold comes straight through with knowledge of its true source, sort of a fabrication like awe. [Here

What's Your Favorite Latin Word or Words? The Quaint, Curious, Romantic, and Fanciful . . . THEY OR IT could or should be something you like the sound of, or which has special meaning to you; Or you have a special attachment or romance for. . . .and what is that special attachment for you? Here are a few of my fav

What a great age to be! Enjoy. . . . Faustus And when thyself with shining foot shall pass Among the guests star-scatter'd on the grass, ...And in they joyous errand reach the spot Where I made one -- turn down an empty glass!

Agreed. As it seems that both the Turks and the Armenians are less than pleased with Washington's vote, it's hard to see what good it's supposed to do. Let's call it what it is: A Resolution of the U.S. House of Representatives. Why would they step in it like this right now? It accomplishes nothing at all except grandstanding, and is only a symbolic vote. Let's call a spade a spade; nice hand they are playing. . .It's fairly easy to see what it will produce. Even the politicians in Turkey see it for what it is, but they can not ignore it. It's too hot politically. Nice timing U.S. House.

Romans vis-

Answer to: Why do you like Rome: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salve RomanItaly, I feel the same emotional attachment, and this has caused me to somewhat disdain the Greeks, because they seem to get all the credit. I think it's (partly) because of the generational thing, and, too, because of the channeling of their genius into things popular in today's society in this country, and the adolescence(?) juvenility(?) of it. It is easiest for me to summarize it as a generational proposition: I think it goes something like this: The son (I use male because the male struggle for status is different from the female, and the line of power in societies is usually patriarchal more than matriarchal), again the son, when he is a juvenile or adolescent rejects his Father while more respecting his Grandfather. This is in part the importance of the grandfather (and grand mother) in human societies. America is an adolescent/juvenile society, and rejects the father, Rome, and transfers its respect more to the grandfather Greece. When speaking of America, I am not speaking of actual youths, but those who are able to shape opinions(with clamor, and noise). They admire the seemingly liberal (democracy/egalitarianism) of Greece, and somewhat despise the conservative (republic/diluted electoral participation) of Rome. Conservatism is "keeping" and "holding onto that which is

Salve ASCLEPIADES, I

Oops, I think I may have read your original posting on the hemicyclium too quickly, and misunderstood. Sorry! The one you eventually have carved is going to be magnificent, I'm sure -- and I'd like to see a picture of that one when it's done! Okay, here's that other book I'd mentioned, Faustus, that may interest you: Roman Builders: A Study in Architectural Process, by Rabun Taylor (Assistant Professor of History of Art and Architecture at Harvard University). There are several sections in the book that mention ancient Roman contracts and contractors, but in his introduction to the book Taylor differentiates between the simplest building contract type in Roman law, called the stipulatio, and the more, complex, general Roman practice of the standard type of public building contract, called the locatio conductio. An example of the simple stipulatio is given in the form of Cato the Elder's arranging for the construction of a villa, with the price "calculated not by labor, or even by materials, but simply by counting the number of roof tiles used on the building at one sestertius per tile. This contract appears to open-ended. There is no deadline; a season of work presumably sufficed." (Although, in his notes, Taylor states that deadlines could nevertheless be set in a stipulatio.) "No price is fixed, only the formula for calculating it. The tile count and calculation were undertaken after completion by disinterested assessors (mensores), described by the agricultural writer Columella as 'those who measure structures after they have been built and reckon up the cost of the finished work by applying a method of calculation.' The stipulatio remained a popular form of private contract, but its weaknesses -- especially with regard to timely completion -- are well documented in the legal sources." In contrast to the private stipulatio, Taylor cites the late second century BCE Puteoli contract as an example of the more complex, public building contract, the locatio conductio: "It gives a deadline for the conclusion of work. It calls for surety from the contractor against failure to complete the project properly, and it specifies terms of payment -- in this case, half the total sum when the estates of the sureties were registered, the other half upon completion. The sum itself is also specified in this document." Taylor also describes in this section the ancient Romans' bidding process for public contracts, citing Plutarch, who wrote: "When they give public notice of intent to let contracts for the building of temples or colossal statues, listen to the proposals of artists competing for the commission and bringing in their estimates and models, and then choose the man who will do the same work with the least expense and better than the others and more quickly." Sounds familiar, regarding the way we do things today. -- Nephele Interesting Nephele, Those are the two methods used today. I.e a subcontractor shows up on the job, a concrete finisher for instance, and does the work, and then measures up after. and presents a bill for the work. If there is a disagreement it is handled forthwith. If disagreements are common with a specifice (sub) contractor, then usually the (general) contractor will part company with the sub and find another source. These agreements are managed with a one time handshake which projects into the future until the relationship changes. This applies to any work (brick, block, shingles, ceramic tile, etc.) that can be calculated by count or measurement, and assumptions are made. . . .It is not done with more complicated work that involves "variables". If there are too many variables and they can't be distilled out of the process as reasonable extra charges, then the sub may procede by the hour as a Casual Hourly Worker, and as long as trust is maintained it works out fine. Almost always though, after a time, disputes come about, and the two part company as business associates. ( the stipulatio) (Your material suggests that this is exactly what happened back then.) Therefore it can be seen that this arrangement does not apply to complex structures, or even to ordinary "countable" or "piece" work if the relationship between the two principals has not yet been tested by experience. Neither does it apply between the (general) contractor and the "end "customer, except in unusual cases. Too many problems can arise, and therefore disputes that would land both in court. I.e. I wouldn't undertake to do that even with a good friend, or relative. It spells trouble for everyone. Then, a complete set of specifications come into play, and are rigidly abided by. (the locatio conductio) It appears that these are arrangements do naturally evolve out of relationships where trust speeds thing along to mutual satisfaction. This is true today, and not surprising was true in Rome 2,000 years ago.

That helps indeed, gratiam habeo. But I had some problems when I was checking out your Plinian notes. On the translation by Bostock & Riley (Perseus-Tufts Classic Collection online), the titles of the referred chapters are: BOOK II. AN ACCOUNT OF THE WORLD AND THE ELEMENTS.

That's brilliant! Thanks for posting that picture! I don't think I'd seen one of those before, and you carved that yourself? I think I've got another book that pertains to ancient Roman contractors for you, but it's at work. I'll hunt it out later and post here about it. -- Nephele Sorry for any misunderstanding. That is a photo of an ancient Hemicyclium which came tangentially from the topic on first century AD waterclock (or clepsydra). I was searching for something to have carved for my yard. A month or so back Urbs AED. was asking about a memoriam to his father, who'd passed away and so began my search for an apt model to carve from for my own memoriam likewise. For this poster it became Cape Diem, and my research is completed. Now for the action. I've found my carver to duplicate the ancient Hemicyclium the picture of which I posted. It will be complete before the end of November with my own modifications. (I have a limestone cylinder 9" dia. x 39" l to use as a pedestal which had been carved on by my own "pater " 65 years now past). I hope that straightens out any misunderstandings I may have created. . . Valete -

Salve Moonlapse To possibly answer your question, Could that be understood to mean china? And the reason for the contradiction, is it doesn't really matter. Whatever is said will confuse the general public, certain segments of which believe contradictory information anyway, and they become even more shrill, etc. to add to the din, which is the object of the excercise. It's a form of public hysteresis: yes, no, yes, no, yes, no . . . and all meaning in words is lost. . .(think 1984, sadly I say)

Salve Skarr, very useful comments. I tend to think that Like Napoleon, Caesar's great ability to make decisions which turned out well (usually) were because he may have been somewhat of a savant in making those types of calculations. I refer you to Will Durant's THE AGE OF NAPOLEON (THE STORY OF CIVILIZATION PART XI). That could've been one of the many reasons that In his book, "Caesar and Christ", Durant called him "the most complete man that antiquity produced". My own subsequent interest in Napoleon came as a result of searching for Caesar's equal in a more modern setting. otherwise, Hear, hear! Valete

Salve, Amici. Then, a couple of questions: - Can you give us an operative definition (or maybe a group of definitions) for "Capitalism"? - Why most historical accounts of Capitalism begin at most at the end of the Middle Ages? Salve ASCLEPIADES Thank you for the questions: (sorry getting back to you took so long, I had to go out and check on the progress of my subcontractors, and catch things up) Being the author of the topic I will offer my own uninformed definition of Capitalism in the context in which I originally intended in the post: -Capital - The financial means either in monetary form or in property value used as leverage to finance projects. and -Capitalism - a society in which the principal means of financing capital projects (construction, manufacturing, science, even art) are largely in the private sector or are privately held by the citizenry, or by government figures acting as private citizens, and/or the government acting in the same capacity, in regards to public projects, or public works projects, and contracting with those private "capitalists" defined above to realize those projects in cooperation with private entities. The monetary capital can be money issued by the government, or can be promissory notes issued by individual, banks, or government(s) which promise payment monetarily or in kind upon completion of these capital projects. -(Why most. . .) (Durant's CAESAR AND CHRIST CH. XV (sub.ch. VIII.) The Economy and the State) The Roman economy was a system of laissez faire tempered with state ownership of natural resources-mines, quarries, fisheries, salt deposits, and considerable tracts of cultivated land.(68) Public works were normally let out to private contractors under such strict state supervision that they were usually well done, and with minimum of corruption.(70) About AD 80 such enterprises were increasingly carried out by the emperor's freedmen with the labor of governmental slaves. At all times apparently, the mitigation of unemployment was one purpose of these state undertakings. (71) The aediles supervised retail trade under an excellent system of regulations, but, if we may believe an irate character in Petronius, they were no better than similar officials in other times;

GLOBAL WARMING/GLOBAL COOLING Which Really IS The Most Likely Threat? From the vantage point of geologic history, and considering we are are presently in a warm interlude of an Ice Age which includes short warm periods(10-15 thousand years or so) like the present one, the greater threat might just be global cooling. These seem to be the choices: 1. Grapes being harvested in Canada 2. New York City and Boston being plowed into the Atlantic Ocean Could the only thing to prevent number 2 be the beneficial effects of a warmer climate creating the situation in number 1? Could this be the reason only 13% of Canadians consider Man Made Global warming to be an issue something should be done about? And could it be that those in the 13% are being persuaded to act, if they are indeed committed to action, against their own best interests? How many times during the past 1.8 million years has Canada been buried in ice, and as a matter of fact, has the U.S. also been buried under ice as far south as Kentucky? The answer to that question may be found, but not with much certainty as to timelines. During past glaciations, the amount of CO2 and methane, both greenhouse gasses that tend to cause global warming, were lower than during interglacial episodes. There seems to be an implied cause and effect there, but the following link at least explores all the possibilities, including astronomical which includes solar activity: this is interesting. Could it be more likely that instead of the severe global warming we are warned will soon happen, instead an ice age which is cyclical and almost certainly predictable is being forestalled? Over the past 1.6 million years the northern hemisphere has been under ice a proportionally far greater amount of time than not, and this cycle is all but certain to repeat itself. There are just too many variables involved in global climate change to know with any certainty what will happen next.

I can't think of a better question for a first post! Welcome aboard Crispina. Enjoy your garden! Faustus -------------------- And this delightful Herb whose tender Green Fledges the garden's Lip on which we lean----

BREAKING AWAY MORPHED INTO A POPULAR BIKE TOUR OF SOUTHERN INDIANA HILLS And they

The Importance of the Contractor in the Social Structure of Ancient Rome (And Other Societies Ancient and Modern) Here is a subject of interest to me. In it I am posing questions and making statements without any firm answers or sources. It is posed as