Urbs Aedificator

I met a Canadian who asked me what state Maryland was in. It really is galling when foreigners don't know the geography of your country, isn't it... M.P. Cato, I'm truely suprised that that Canadian even knew about Maryland...what I encounter here, is the confusion(in their own minds) that America has two Washington's, and they are not even sure it's two states named Washington, or two Capitals...very disconcerting. Alex

I would like to say the 'barbarization' of America and it's culture, but this might be misconstrued as too inflamitory or narrow minded on my part... I work at a local college for foreign exchange students here in Canada, and the difference between what I see there and what I see in my son's high school is shocking. I know this is a broad and sweeping statement, and certainly has exceptons, but I feel that the excessive opulence in our society has led to a great deal of complacency, and just plain laziness. Manifesting itself from applying oneself to your school studies to being more concerned about the 'bling' in your life. Doc, I understand your reaction to your students responses, but as a counterpoint, the majority of our exchange students are from Asia(mostly China), and their knowledge of Western history is abysmal(although I feel this is a function of their govt's bias in education against western influence). I have taken it upon myself to unofficially in my spare time teach them about western history starting from the Ancient Greeks(including a good dose of philosophy), up through the Roman Replublic, then Empire, to and including the Middle Ages. It's quite interesting to see their reaction and at times genuine enthuseasm for this 'new' subject. Then again I'm a true believer of reintroducing Rhetoric, Philosophy, and Classical studies as mandatory into school curriculum... Alex

As far as I am concerned the book: The Grand Strategy Of The Roman Empire - From the first Century A.D. to the Third by Edward Luttwak holds the definative answer to the original posters queston. I cannot begin to do justice to his work so I will not attempt to paraphrase him. Buy the book, or possibly look up on the net references and material. Alex.

'I don't see the Pope having any proper authority to proclaim a new "Emperor of the Romans" when the Empire was still very much alive and still in control of parts of Italy. ' Good point Lex, but was that 'Empire' still Roman, or something else... Alex.

I'm beginning to wonder if it was not the Papacy in Rome that was the true inheritor of the Western Roman Empire. Especially considering how it maintained Roman administrative functions, promoted the 'Lingua Romana', and promulagated Western/Roman ideas through to the Mddle Ages. Ita? Non? Alex

My two denarii worth...IMO the siege of Constantinople in 717 A.D. The forces of Islam were surging. The left point of the Muslim cresent was to be stopped at Tours, the right point of the cresent was aimed at Constantinople. If the siege by the Muslim forces had been successful, theres a good chance we'd all be speaking Arabic now... Alex

Sandra Shaw, a sculptress in Toronto, accepts commissions for portrait busts that would strongly evoke the Greco-Roman attitude toward portraiture. Her website is http://www.sandrashaw.com. I've seen her work in person, attended her lectures, and discussed ancient art with her at some length. I think she would understand, appreciate, and admire your goals. Good luck. M.P. Cato, many, many thanks.

I've been doing some reading and research lately on the Carolingian Empire, presently focusing on the Reign of Charlesmagne. From what I gather Charles The Great likely saw himself and his people as the inheritors of the Western Roman Empire. Any thoughts? Or any other candidates as inheritors? Cheers Alex

Vibius, thank you kindly. It's funny even in these modern times how we are still greatly influenced by Roman values. Love for my dad will always be there. I am seeking out someone to carve a bust...but here in Canada, it seems to be a lost art... but I'll find someone in good time I'm sure. Thank you all. Cheers Alex(Lar Aeternius Donax)

You know,it's funny you should mention the above...that's exactly how I'm feeling these days...and I feel that this is what I will ultimately do. My dad and I where both afficianados(if you will) with regards to Roman Stoacism. We both admired the practical stoacism of Epictetus(yes I know, a GREEK slave during the Principate) and his influence on the likes of Marcus Aurelius(Meditations),et al. It's funny, three books left to me from my dad were: M.Aurelius' Meditations, Seneca Letters From A Stoic, and Cicero's On The Good Life...all pretty good philosophical tomes on how to live a flourishing life...whether you are a modern or a Roman. Maty thank you.

Two books actually. Plutarch's 'Lives', I've always enjoyed his writing style. And Epictetus' Enchiridion/Discourses. For me, life changing.

LOL Good one. Makes one wonder if that ever happened in ancient Greece or Rome, and how the teachers reacted. Cheers. Alex

Well put Moonlapse. That's a political hot potatoe that I will reserve for another forum I belong to. But I catch your drift. Politics and Religion tend to divide people. I prefer to discuss things that unite them...that's why I like the UNRV forums. Cheers. Alex.

Yes, you are right the school day is limited, and many folks feel that there are more important topics to learn. Of course when we talk of subjects such as statistics and economics MPC, are we not looking at things only from a perspective that we feel is essential. We all accept, I presume, that we cannot go back to Classical times, nor might many want to(having to give up the modern conveniences we have accrued). Yet, limiting our view to what is essential to modern life, or what society insinuates is essential to modern life, really does not give us a 'leg up' on living a better life. Which I think many feel is the point of this whole game. I ask though, what does Rhetoric give us in our search for a better life for ourselves , our loved ones, and I may postulate our society in general? Firstly, I am tempted to say that Rhetoric will take you as far in life as you let it GPM. Secondly Rhetoric, or public speaking(but not media relations et al)are indeed available, and at present as PP straightforwardly pointed out, only as a speciaity. Those who are interested soon realize that effective speaking confers to it's owner many benefits that can be applied to almost any academic subject taught today. Yes, a broad statement, but let us ask what is the seed of Rhetoric that makes it so effective in its proscribed environment and potentially also effective in any other subject it is applied to? Why it's the ability to orginize. Organize one's thoughts one's actions, one's life, if so inclined. Can you imagine if, made mandatory(unlike in Classical times) to every school child, what a force to contend with that said child might become?! Certainly, in the very least, it would beat having to listen to the dribble that passes for intelligent conversation, heck just plain conversation one hears in schools, work, on the subway, the kid who is serving you fries...'yo! wazzup? that's sooo sick!, boy it musta been filth kickin' it in the times those dudes wore togas... ...or I could be wrong. Not really trying to sell a point here, just trying to view things from a neglected perspective. Ave. Alex

Double post, sorry.

Most significant battle in Britain? Overheard in an unamed pub in Brighton by two imbibed blokes: 'Stout'! 'No Porter'! 'Stout I said'!... Alex...pale ale anyone?

Ave. I guess its an 'occupational hazard' for those of us who delve into classical history, but I have for quite a while felt that Rhetoric in the classical sense should be taught as mandatory in schools. Likely at the beginning of high school and extended as an option onto post secondary education. As a matter of fact the whole concept of education(although it is various) from a Greek/Roman perspective should(IMHO) be taught with EMPHASIS, not to the exclusion of the todays curriculum, but as a solid foundation from which to grow. Any thoughts? Alex

Thanks Asclepiades, I wasn't sure if this topic had been done over before. Alex

Ave. I've put this topic in Res Publica simply because in my opinion, this is the era that I feel 'Roman' virtues were more pronounced(although yes they did change over this long period). Not to say that they were not evident during Empire, just that as Rome encountered and was influenced by the various cultures, 'virtues' may have changed. So here's the question: which virtues in your opinion did the Romans hold most dear, and why? Honor? Dignity? Virtue itself? Others? We may have to define what a Roman virtue is, but lets hear your thoughts. Cheers. Alex

Thank you Nephele. I am truely impressed. I will use this name with honor! Alex.

Why thank you Nephele, that's very kind of you. As it stands my dad, and grandad, also had the exact same name as me.(I guess we weren't too imaginative about first name's, or as I'm guessing, that the first born male always gets the same first name.) Your offer is truely appreciated. Alex

Hi Nephele. Very interesting stuff this! I'll give it a whirl. I'm male, and here's the mix: redlanexa jrodtena. Have fun.

Mmmm, the Matron was correct, nibbles from around the known world. These jellied Oryx tongues were particularily tasty. His head was beginning to hum from the strong Roman wine, when he heard someone shout from the back of the Atrium. 'Run Alexander, Run for your life.' Turning slowly he noticed the rather large Thrax glowering at him and striding stiff leggedly right towards him, metal spike in hand. Rather absentmindedly(it must have been the strong wine) he noticed that the spike was type the Charon masked officials used in the arena to ensure downed gladiators were truely dead. "You gotta problem with my body piercing little Greek?" Wine goblet now placed on a nearby table, Alexander stood stoicly with his hands behind his back. 'Well', he thought to himself, 'if this is my time, then so be it'. Glowering, only inches away from Alexanders face, and waving the spike rather menacingly, Alexander thought he would use a tactic, that just might allow him to leave this party with his skin intact. "Great fighter" he started " I realize I may have stepped over some invisible boundary, when jesting about your body 'modifications'. But let me assauge your virility with a little ditty" The Thrax glowered. "Ditty?" You insultin' me again, hmmm?" " Did you hear the story about the Thrax, and the Senators wife?" Alexander ventured. "Huh? no?" said the Thrax. "Neither did the Senator" winked Alexander. A moment passed, then the Thrax broke out laughing, and pounded Alexander good naturedly on the back. " Good one little Greek". He strode off still waving the spike searching for a goblet of wine... Alexander breathed a sigh, and headed for the Peristyle as quietly as he could. ' I will offer up a prayer of thanks to the household Lars for letting me live another day'...

Thank you all. I don't really feel like I'm in mourning, just lost a friend I liked to chat to....thanks again. You have all presented great ideas, some of which never occured to me. This coupled with your sympathies, only confirms the caliber of the people here on the forum. Ave Amicus. Alex