ASCLEPIADES

Salve, Lady N

Actually choosing his horse for consul (If this even ever did happen, I guess my theory would nothing but be silly if it's only a myth) is not even closely as mad as it may seem - It's merely a way to point out how worthless the consular position was by this time compared to the power of the princeps. On the question of literature, I actually thing you would find your best evidence in Suetonius working your way back from what seems to be reasonable and what seems to be rumours. The topic sounds very interesting by the way! A Urban Myth indeed. Our main gossipy source, C. Suetonius T. goes no farther than suggesting that "it was said" Caius (aka Caligula) even planned to award Incitatus a consulship in the cp LV of his biography, from almost a century later. Writing after an additional century, L. Cassius Dio told us more or less the same on his Romanika Historia (Liber LXIX, cp XIV); both authors presumably quoted from a common source (maybe Cluvius Rufus). And of course, Incitatus never appeared on any consular fasti.

Congratulations, Russell!

Gratiam habeo for the crack, AC. The same can be said regarding the Fall of Rome. Is there any measure and/or estimation on the economic impact of the building and maintenance of the Hadrian's Wall and related defensive lines? (ie, the Antonine Wall, the Stanegate, the Gask Ridge and so on)

Salve, Amici.

Salve, Amici

Gratiam habeo for your quiz, Carolyn. It is really a nice piece of didactic work. Merry Mithras!

Salve, M This issue has been extensively discussed on a previous thread. My own conclusion after all that: Lucius Brutus was a too mythological (ie, fictitious) figure to reach any useful conclusion regarding the patrician-plebeian social system. In any case, the indisputedly plebeian Marcus Brutus was indeed widely accepted as Lucius Brutus descendent, MT Cicero included. And as far as I know, patrician status inheritance was not optional (just ask Clodius).

Specially because, if he was the son of Sestius, why was his name Cornelius Scipio? Here comes Caius Suetonius Tranquillus, Vita Divus Iulius, cp. LIX, sec. II: Ad eludendas autem vaticinationes, quibus felix et invictum in ea provincia fataliter Scipionum nomen ferebatur, despectissimum quendam ex Corneliorum genere, cui ad opprobrium vitae Salvitoni cognomen erat, in castris secum habuit. "Furthermore, to make the prophecies ridiculous which declared that the stock of the Scipios was fated to be fortunate and invincible in that province, he kept with him in camp a contemptible fellow belonging to the Cornelian family, to whom the nickname Salvito had been given as a reproach for his manner of life". And here comes Lucius Mestrius Plutarchus, Caesar, cp. LII, sec. IV-V: "On learning that the enemy were emboldened by an ancient oracle to the effect that it was always the prerogative of the family of the Scipios to conquer in Africa, he either flouted in pleasantry the Scipio who commanded the enemy, or else tried in good earnest to appropriate to himself the omen, it is hard to say which. He had under him, namely, a man who otherwise was a contemptible nobody, but belonged to the family of the Africani, and was called Scipio Sallustio. This man Caesar put in the forefront of his battles as if commander of the army, being compelled to attack the enemy frequently and to force the fighting". And here comes Cassius Dio, Historia, Liber XLII, cp. LVIII, sec. I: "When Caesar learned of this and saw that his own soldiers also were persuaded that it was so and were consequently afraid, he added to his retinue a man of the family of the Scipios who bore that name (he was otherwise known as Salutio)". The orthography of his agnomen varies considerably among the diverse translations of these sources.

Salve, AC We had recently a thread on the potential relationship of the waste of valuable reources (eg Hadrian's Wall Inner Moat or Vallum) with the eventual demise of the Roman Empire. I understand the Vallun was filled just like a decade after having been built... Any explanation for that issue? Wasn't it a huge waste of resources?

alve, Amici Does anybody know if there's a Turkish account on that battle?

Welcome, Sas A fair assesment of gender status in not so many words.

Little busy here; thanks in advance to anyone who might take my place.

Not too long. Often it took a lot of time for a consul to became a proconsul. But as the proconsulate of Asia was the high point of a senatorial career (together with Africa) it was not given to someone as the first province. He might have been proconsul somewhere else before 132. I find the dates more interesting because in both 116 and 132/3 there were large Jewish rebellions under way. Agreed . Yes, as I have said, the coincidence for a consul of Jewish origin in 116 is amazing because of the Jewish revolt of the years 115-117 . Now You came with another one - A proconsulate in 132/3 - exacetly at the begining of the Bar Cochba revolt . Who knows what were the motives of Traianus and Hadrianus . A puzzle ! You assuming that the emperors saw Berenicianus as Jewish or something similar but I seriously doubt it. Obviously no; any Roman would have seen him for what he was; a rich Roman citizen from a consular rank family. Period.

Salve, Lady Docta Morpheus.

Salve, Amici. We can always begin HERE

MPC has already done the hard work. Thanks in advance to anyone wno may be able to take my turn.

The speaker, whose rosy fingers can be found tracing out the hour of daybreak, would be Aurora/Eos? And then, of all her loves, who is most dear? Three possible ones: Astraeus, lord of the dusk, with whom Aurora had the most children (for what that's worth!); tragic Tithonus, kidnapped by Aurora and granted an unnatural longevity from which he begged to be released (again: be careful what you wish for!); and Cephalus, with whom Aurora had a brief infatuation with terrible consequences for poor Cephalus. Of these, the one most likely to muse beneath Aurora's bower seems to be Tithonus. Tough one, Augusta. Beautiful but tough -- like Livia I guess. Am I close? After such a wonderful expositon, I only wish you were right, MPC! Let me give you a hint. He is scouring the sky to learn the hour but not during the day. Is he Endymion? Is she Selene?

Salve, Lady A Is he Amphimaros? Is his love Ourania?

Salve, LW Can you identify some of those places? (specially if they are accesible online).

Salve, Lady N It is an intriguing fact that, even if the Gens Servilia persisted in the Imperial consular Fasti as late as the end of the II century AD, all the numerous republican surnames reported here by you (and presumably the respective families) seem to have disappeared, replaced by some new surnames:

This comprehensive text correlates a lot of archaeological evidence from Italy with the semi-legendary accounts of the classical sources; by the 11th chapter (Decemvirate) you would have covered some 300 years of Roman history, like the first three books of Livy. You may find some good complementary material here at UNRV (like the section on the XII tables). Any analysis or commentary posted by you would be welcomed. Good luck and merry Mithras!

The first half (Ben Jonson's) is easily recognizable by those who may have majored in English literature in college. You are the goddess Artemis/Diana, of course. -- Nephele Of course, Lady N. Your turn.