guy

One more reason Not to visit Ireland by Strabo (63/64 BCE - AD 24) from Geography Book IV, Chapter 5.4: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/4E*.html guy also known as gaius

Here's a nice coin with Serapis: http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=114962

Similarly, the Roman Republic was involved in the internal politics of many foreign nations simultaneoulsy in order to protect Roman interests. guy also known as gaius

(On a much lighter note ) On a different thread, the question was asked "Why Rome didn't conquer Ireland." This was my (possibly inappropriate) reply: I think there was great fear among the legionaries about the possibility of encountering this remorseless foe: guy also known as gaius

I wonder how we can trust Tacitus on this because he incorrectly believed that Ireland was found between Britain and Spain. "In that part of Britain which looks towards Ireland, he posted some troops, hoping for fresh conquests rather than fearing attack, inasmuch as Ireland, being between Britain and Spain and conveniently situated for the seas round Gaul, might have been the means of connecting with great mutual benefit the most powerful parts of the empire." guy also known as gaius

Unfortunately, this is as close as I can get for now. (Not a bad second choice, however.) guy also known as gaius

Maty, this is exactly why I have my doubts about the legendary plant. There are not many places I can visit if I want to see the Loch Ness monster or consult the Oracle of Delphi. (The Oracle, at least, had a great influence over several societies for centuries. Does this make it any more real?) Rarity makes silphium even more in demand. It (or some imitator) was a major source of income for the city of Cyrene and the surrounding region. It is profitable to be unique. And on the subject of numismatic evidence, here is your mythical griffin on a coin with the lady of Ephesus in more modest attire (source: acsearch.info): Otherwise, I think your argument is very persuasive. Thank you for responding. g.

I want to thank people who read my post and responded. Trust me, I am not adamant about my beliefs on this. That said, I would rather discuss Silphium (and its purported medical value or reasons for its extinction) than almost any current political issue. Then again, the heated debates today around here in California concerning the legalization of marijuana and its supposed medical benefits and possible risks make for interesting discussions, too.

Ghost: Thank you for reading my posts. I do think that if silphium did exist (and I have some doubts), I am certain that no plant could have as diverse and varied a range of medical uses as reported (treating everything from warts and cough to being an effective contraceptive). Exaggerated claims of medical benefits are not uncommon. Remember when Vitamin C was thought to cure everything from the common cold to cancer? And let us not forget the long list of benefits attributed to cabbage by Cato: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Cato/De_Agricultura/K*.html I'm suspicious of silphium's extinction, if it ever existed. It seems unlikely that a plant would become extinct from such an unusual confluence of events (overgrazing, war, global warming, Roman greed, resistance to cultivation, etc.) Although I can accept silphium's existence, I doubt that that any plant could have such great therapeutic potential. The fact that such a plant is extinct creates a mythology that cannot be tested by any scientific method.

Here's a good article on silphium (or at least one its relatives): http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200904/devil.s.dung-the.world.s.smelliest.spice.htm Addendum: One of the aspects of the silphium myth I find disturbing is that the studies done on the medicinal properties of these "silphium related" plants is that they were done a half century ago...and have not be repeated. Warning signals, anyone?

Here are some numismatic images of this mythical plant and its heart-shaped fruit. Below are more coins, as well as a map of the important Silphium trade city of Cyrene on the Libyan coast. Interestingly enough, believers of the silphium story contend that the heart symbol for love was derived from the heart-shaped fruit. The connection being, of course, that silphium's contraceptive abilities allowed for more numerous and worry-free amorous encounters. Here's an interesting anecdote attributed to this coin. (It is from the article quoted in post #6.) g.

Silphium was the legendary plant from antiquity. Its heart-shaped fruit was a cure-all that was used as a remedy for many conditions, including warts, pneumonia, typhus, fever, and indigestion, as well as an aphrodisiac. Most famously, it was supposedly used as to prevent pregnancy and even induce abortion. It is supposedly extinct, but there is some numismatic evidence for its previous existence. (Be sure to scroll all the way down the page to see several coins with the silphium plant on the link below:) http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/kyrenaica/t.html A healthy skeptic would not fail to mention that there is also numismatic evidence for many mythological gods and other entities, but that doesn't prove their existence, either. This plant purportedly only grew along a small region of the modern Libyan coastline known as Cyrenaica. The city of Cyrene was important for its trade and cultivation. Many coins from the city of Cyrene portrayed its image. Ancient writers ranging from Herodotus, Strabo, Catullus, and Pliny mention it. The Ancient Roman physician Soranus even recommended it's use for contraception. So why do I doubt its existence with all of its numismatic and literary evidence for this extinct plant? (I'm committing numismatic heresy here.) These are some of the many reasons for my doubts: First, I'm skeptical of any medicine which reportedly has such an unlimited potential for so many unrelated conditions, ranging from the treatment of warts to its use for contraception. Second, Ancient "global warning" has been blamed for the extinction of the plant. The argument is that Ancient Roman, similar to the modern Western World, is the source of all destruction. Third, the argument is that the plant became extinct because it only could be cultivated in Cyrenaica and those [evil] Romans exhausted the supply of this priceless plant. Oh, isn't that nice. Supposedly, Nero (you remember, that gluttonous brute) was given the last stalk of the plant (and presumably ate it). This is a nice story, but too "convenient." So a plant as valuable as silphium couldn't grow anywhere else? Fourth, the argument goes that between the confusion of war and excessive grazing by livestock, silphium became extinct. That is sort of like the "dog ate my homework" argument. According to Pliny the Elder: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Plin.+Nat.+19.15&redirect=true Fifth, it is easy and fun to believe in mythical creatures and places and even plants. Unfortunately, reality can be harder to grasp. By writing this, I am now a persona non grata in the numismatic community. I promise, however, once I find my lost unicorn, I will tirelessly search for the mythical silphium.

Why does the German group Rammstein conjure my ancestral fears of the Germanic barbarians, especially this song "Feuer Frei," meaning "fire at will" as in a battle setting? guy also known as gaius

I listened to this song on my MP3 player a few years back early one October morning inside the Roman colosseum. I was really overcome with emotion. (It could have been the jet lag since this song deals with the Catholic church, not Ancient Rome...but I was moved by its stentorian grandeur, anyway.) Words/Music: Slick guy also known as gaius

Here's the entire quote from Tacitus that I totally enjoy: From this quote, it appears that Tacitus was invited to witness the destruction of 60,000 Bructerii by a coalition of Barbarian tribes who allied together "in detestation of [bructerii] arrogance, or allured by the love of spoil, or through the special favour of the Gods towards us Romans." This passage both horrifies and haunts me. The scale of brutality of the Germanic tribes, even against each other, is unimaginable. guy also known as gaius

"Long, I pray, may foreign nations persist, if not in loving us, at least in hating one another; for destiny is driving our empire upon its appointed path, and fortune can bestow upon us no better gift than discord among our foes." -- Cornelius Tacitus on feuding Germanic tribes, "Germania" (A.D. 98) I, too, am a fan of the Batavi (the ancestors of the modern Dutch). The Dutch today are among the most tolerant (and tallest) people on the planet. Who would have thought that this Germanic people would later in the 1600s become the center of tolerance and rationalism so important for the emergence of modern Europe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batavi_(Germanic_tribe) guy also known as gaius Here's a link on YouTube (that will be taken down soon, I'm sure) on a series about the Ancient Germanic peoples. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55sR7_w0oDE

I was reacting to the silly blog quoted from the Daily Kos.The Roman Republic was never *lotus land. Any attempt to portray even the early Roman Republic as a peace-loving, non-aggressive "brotherhood of men" is sheer fantasy. guy also known as gaius *lotus land: "[named] after the Land of the Lotus-eaters in the Odyssey, meaning a [mythical] place or state of languid contentment." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus-eaters

I admit it. All political parties quote prominent Ancient Romans or cite Ancient history to support their partisan view. I admire, however, those who use their vast scholarship to make sometimes valid points; e.g., Victor Davis Hansen on the right or Jeremy McInerney on the left. http://main.gvsu.edu/hauenstein/?id=C91F01D2-EC04-081B-8D5354823752C51F That said, others seem silly and sophomoric. Some writers feel that quoting some bit of obscure Ancient history gives their specious and superficial argument the patina of legitimacy and depth: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/18/784045/-Two-Wars-at-Once:-Roman-Success-USA-Defeat In response to the quote above from the Daily Kos, I must wonder how The Roman Republic ever took on two enemies simultaneously (Carthage and the Macedonians in the 200s BCE or Corinth and Carthage a generation later, for example)? [My statement should be read with sarcasm.] Oh, well. I guess I'm not that smart. guy also known as gaius

I thank you, Barca, for sharing an interest in this fascinating facet of the Roman Empire. Here's a review I write sometime ago on AD 381. I greatly enjoyed that book. http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9493 The books by Jenkins are essential, but difficult reading. His writing style is fine, but my eyes glaze over when faced with philosophical arguments. I think sometimes (honestly, most of the time) I would rather watch the DVD Spartacus: Blood and Sand than labor over some obscure theological point. But I also know that vegetables are important, too. (Is beer a vegetable?) guy also known as gaius

Barca. Your first book link is the first book referred to in my original post. I recommend the book highly to anyone interested in the development of Christian doctrine. It changed forever my view of the theological forces at work during the late Roman empire. guy also known as gaius

I have been motivated to write this by Ludovicus' interesting book suggestion: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11395 Too many historians and writers about the late Roman Empire minimize the role that the various and competing threads of Christian belief played in shaping the world of Late Antiquity. This may arise from their ignorance. Unfortunately, this may also arise from an almost visceral (and possibly understandable) hostility toward Christian theology. I, too, find most philosophical arguments boring and tedious. For me, there is no more effective soporific than discussions about religion. These include the earlier Christian controversy about The Trinity and the later controversies about the

A book on Aetius! Damn! Another book on my "must read list." Ian: Was Aetius an Arian Christian (as, I believe, Stilicho was)? I think history minimizes the importance and significance of the tensions between the orthodox Roman Catholic church and other diverse Christian groups, such as the Arians. guy also known as gaius

Ian: Your book is already on my "must read list." Both Stilicho and the later Aetius are tragic examples of Rome's lost opportunites to save itself. (Does UNRV have a link to Amazon.com to order the book in order support UNRV?) Are you coming to the US for a book signing (perhaps Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas) so I can get my book (and your excellent Belisarius book) signed? Good luck on latest work. guy also known as gaius

Although things are continuing to improve, I think images should be available to even non-forum members. I think this would create more eyeball traffic. Also, I recommend (again ) a new forum called medica. Will my review of the DVD, "Caput Mundi" reappear? Finally, should I rework my personal page because much of the information is missing? guy also known as gaius