Primus Pilus

We must realize, while to us it may seem an instant collapse with a defined moment where it all came to an end, to the people of the time the fall of Rome was a gradual process where changes in climate and attitude were identifiable. The Romans themselves had not been in true power for a considerable time, and the various regional powers were well aware of who was. They did not view the 'Empire' in collapse as we do, but they did understand that its power and function was considerably different than it may have been 200 year prior. As states in the west did not exist as we understand them in the modern context, there wasn't necessarily a uniform policy regarding diplomacy. Some tribes were certainly allied with Odoacer and the Vandals while others were not. Those who were friendly with the church certainly had a different attitude than those who weren't, etc. In the east, the collapse of the west was buffered by the continuance of the 'Byzantines'. Relations continued with the eastern emperor along the same lines they likely always did. Certainly the Roman position was weaker without 'Rome', but eastern kingdoms knew that the eastern emperor was the continuance of Roman power and had probably long dismissed the governing power of Rome the city (and Ravenna) amidst the turmoil. I am not suggesting that Odoacer was ignored by other powers at all, only that he was dealt with for who he was and not viewed as some strange new and unknown entity in the western picture. (I mumbled this out rather quickly at the office, I hope it makes some sense)

It seems to me that their forum is completely unmoderated?

It quite frankly depends on your field and what you are doing as a historian. Just a couple of thoughts... A university professor can do quite well for themselves, but such a position at a high quality school can take considerable time to achieve. There are those who probably make a substantial living in publishing books, but again this depends on the subject and its popularity in the mass market.

Just another indication of improved diplomatic relations. Increasing historical research is a good thing despite any controversial notions that may or may not be present.

You need to send her an email according to instructions. We have no idea if 3 people already did it or not.

While I certainly agree that any plague or disease outbreak would have a detrimental effect on the ability of the Empire to withstand other pressures; I believe that the fall of the west was bound to happen within that general time frame anyway. While disease would certainly hasten matters, and cripple the potential for resistance, Rome as it was known in the early imperial period, in its prime size in the mid 2nd century, or even in the resurgance in the early 4th century, was gone.

In the process of upgrading and testing we've learned that there is no available reputation mod for the new version of the board. Unfortunately we're going to have to scrap it. Admins and mods can issue warnings to individuals and there will be 'warning indicators' that are visible to each member, but they can only see their own. Unfortunately Ursus just made several large content requests involving reputation, but I'm sure we can find an alternative incentive.

Agreed, unlike the witless and confused Octavian on ABC's Empire, Max Pirkis' performance in 'Rome' gives us reason to understand why Caesar selected him as heir.

The first book was ordered and shipped today... we'll announce the next one sometime in late September!

Certainly you can publish it here, just send me the text via email or private message and we'll get it online

Its Caesar not Julius, and he would've had an even more difficult time in Britain had he taken less men.

And I hope its Walmart before they turned into the scourge of small town America. There is a growing hate fest with Walmart, despite their market domination, and I hope that doesn't happen with Google (unless they do something to deserve it of course)

Sounds like Hamilcar has the most free time at the moment... Pompeius we'll let you get into the swing of things with school and keep you on the list for a future book. Hamilcar I sent you a private message. By the way everyone... this is intended to be a fun bonus thing... so certainly don't do it if you don't want to

As I recall... all first run episodes will air at 9 PM EST on Sunday night, but there will be an re-airing each Tuesday. As for the BBC version... the only information I've been able to find so far indicates that it will air on BBC 2 in the 'Autumn'. Strangely enough the entire BBC family of sites makes very little mention of the show. If anyone has any more details for our UK based community, please provide them. Also, if anyone has information on when and where the show might air in other countries please feel free to provide that as well.

We just placed the order for the upgrade. Moonlapse will be playing around with over the next few days I'm sure... so it shouldn't be too long.

Virgil started a new thread here for specific views on the first show

While the reforms of Marius are related to the agrarian laws of the Gracchi (essentially, without them then Marius can't take the steps he did) but your descriptions are off. Marius needed recruits for Africa and to fight the migrating Cimbri and Teutones. Thanks to massive earlier defeats and other armies occupied elsewhere, he had little choice but to recruit from the head count. The previous popular legislation of the Gracchi helped make the social attitude possible but otherwise the relation is only a loose one.

Episode 1 'The Stolen Eagle' - VERY MILD PLOT SPOILERS IN THIS POST (but the plot should be quite obvious to those of us on this forum ) A fair representation of the Roman political upheaval during the late Republic. The story begins with Caesar's victory at Alesia and the surrender of Vercingetorix and continues to set the stage for the impending civil war. The opening sequence, showing Romans fighting in formation, legionaries rotating from the first rank to rear of the lines, etc., along with the wild fighting style of the Gauls, showed great promise as a serious attempt to do true historical drama. The roles of Pompey and Cato are well done, while I was slightly disappointed in Ciaran Hind's portrayal of Caesar (He is fine as an actor... just something about his 'look' didn't feel right). Atia, Caesar's niece, seems to be the show stealer (with a particularly bloody scene involving an oxen sacrifice) and plays a prominent role in Roman intrigue, and the sexual aspects. The roles of Brutus, Marc Antony and Cicero were wonderfully done, despite very limited appearances in the first show. Though Cicero appears too young (in comparison to Caesar, Pompey and Cato) I found all three characters interesting and immediately likeable in their roles. The 1st show also introduces Lucius Vorenus (a centurion) and Titus Pullo (a sort of rebellious legionary) who end up making a considerable contribution to Caesar's cause. While they are a bit on the stereotypical side they are nice complimentary characters and their banter back and forth offered some quality moments. The mission that puts them together, to find Caesar's 'Stolen Eagle', is a fictional yet important premise that fills in some political gaps. (The theft is symbolism, helping to replace years of slowly degenerating relations between Caesar and the Senate, with a single key moment to help the plot along.) Octavian is another character added that had little place historically at this point, but his role is important. While he is sent off to see Caesar in Gaul by his conniving mother Atia (a historical deviance), his eventual meeting with Vorenus and Pullo also helps to fill in some important historical notes for those viewers who may not understand what is going on. The show ends with the inevitable break between Caesar and Pompey, and sets the stage for Caesar's crossing of the Rubicon. With episode 2 I expect less 'setting of the stage' material, and more of the true action of the series. While I may have had a slight feeling of disappointment, as the time for each character is almost soap opera (not enough time for some important players) in presentation, the first show was good and left me feeling it has a ton of potential. I expect that with each episode the true personalities of these all important historical characters will truly emerge.

I'm not even sure why people register on a forum like this if they have no intention of posting. There are no additional features simply by joining. However, since there will be new features with the upgrade, its probably something we'll have to consider. I'm sure we will be able to control who gets to use what features, however, possibly based on post count or our own discretion.

Just a reminder that the series premiers tonight (Sunday, 8/28/05) on HBO for our North American community.

The Rise of the church contributed to the fall of Rome, IMO. The Church was already an established political force by the fall of the west. Even though it had its trouble in a post Roman world, its continued growth is well attested.

Best Ancient General

There are just so many (however many are closely tied in with one another), add... Economic collapse Religious collapse (the destruction of the pagan culture had a ripple effect that undermined the social order) There are even some who blame lead poisoning Hand in hand with barbarian incorporation is the barbarization of the Roman Legion. By the 5th century all traces of the army that conquered the western world had been replaced by what might as well be considered mercenary foreigners.

We just hope we don't blow everything up in the process

He is generally considered a Vandal King because it was the Vandal host army controlling Rome that elected him. He was likely of Hunnish or Scirian background. Though he was obviously around for some time as magister militum, he becomes prominent with the revolt of the army in 476 AD and the final fall of the western empire.