Primus Pilus

Yes, there is the likelihood that the final battle with Brennus after leaving Rome is a bit of propoganda to help alleviate the psychological pain of the city being sacked. However, Camillus did capture the all-important Veii, which was a long standing hold out against Roman domination of the region. When the Gauls acked Rome, it was the presence of Camillus and his army at Veii that helped secure the release of the city. When the Gauls left, it was Camillus that maintained regional order against the Volsci and the Aequi, the Etruscans and other various regional Latin towns. Without Camillus, its quite possible that the little regional superiority that the Romans had gained to that point may have been lost.

Nope, I get this... Not Found The requested URL /smith-bio/ was not found on this server. Apache/2.0.50 (Fedora) Server at isidore.isidore-of-seville.com Port 80

Nope, rejected in Firefox and IE for me. Strange.

The link isn't working Clodius... sure sounds like something I'd like to use as well....

Indeed, we've mentioned it a bit around here, though its never seemed to go much beyond a cursory discussion Did the Romans get to China Romans descendents found in Gansu The Lost Legion

Of course, as I'm sure most of us are already aware, Agricola was Tacitus' father-in-law and the account is, at the very least, tainted by the motivation for Tacitus to honor Agricola's achievements. Unfortunately because of this relationship we have to assess Tacitus' account of Domitian with just a bit of reservation. I would never suggest to dismiss his account entirely, just to look at with a bit more scrutiny.

I heard these guys are pretty good... www.unrv.com Actually, I'm well aware that most of this site isn't really designed for the youngins... and we don't use alot of pictures and graphics to help grab their attention, but I couldn't resist a gratuitous plug

This is a tough one... my personal bad but good is appropriately named as well. "The Good the Bad and the Ugly" is a great film, yet among other things its production quality, English/Italian voice over dubbing, and Civil war re-enactment scenes are quite poor (in my opinion of course). I love it despite it being hard for many people to watch (I'm sure especially the younger the audience is, the harder it is to watch).

He is a radio 'shock jock' or disc jockey. I have never heard Tim Shaw of Kerrang! Radio, so I can't be sure of the similarities but the two draw comparisons from media types. As for Stern. I can take him or leave him. Some days I find him quite humorous, and others I find him totally revolting, but thats the nature of his show. Its what he is trying to do and he is quite good at it. I haven't heard him on satellite... I'd imagine he's quite outrageous without FCC public airway restrictions?

Here is another older thread on the subject... Unconquered Scotland (Caledonia)

The problem with Cincinnatus was simply that he is a character based largely in legend. The details of the history are simple not available. I am not suggesting that Livy created him out of thin air... certainly not... only that because of the taint of the unknown I am personally forced to find another candidate. However the legend of Cincinnatus certainly qaulifies as 'the Greatest Roman Figure'.

A couple pages back I mentioned Marcus Furius Camillus as a candidate, but in that time period all of the aristocracy was decidely anti-plebe. Quite honestly its difficult for me to vote against Scipio Africanus as the greatest Roman. When one considers all of his accomplishments... militarily in Hispania, Africa and the oft ignored campaigns against Antiochus that brought Asia under Roman influence, and the way in which he retired from service, is there another Roman that exemplifies what it meant to be a Roman. He understood the power of the mob yet did not use his popularity to incite them to violence against his political enemies (but he wisely used them to protect himself). Unlike the characters of the late Republic, Scipio Africanus laid down his arms and withdrew from public life rather than sully the greatness that was Rome.

Ever hear of Aurelian? Or does your knowledge of Roman history begin and end with Caesar? I ask because you have yet to cite any facts about the generals you regard to be Caesar's inferior: you only mention facts about Caesar. But to support a comparative claim, you have to cite facts about both of the agents whom you are comparing, including facts regarding marginal utility (i.e., what did the agent ADD to the value of the larger unit.) Ugh... I give up. This thread has become all heat and no light. Gentlemen, this is almost turning into one of those infamous what if threads. Regardless of points made regarding military ability it really is quite difficult to compare generals and tactics of different eras. We can't simply line them up against one another and decide who was better. Even in the cases where generals faced one another, (such as Scipio vs. Hannibal) there are plenty of variables to decipher which may or may not indicate which general was actually superior. It is impossible to say who was better from a complete military standpoint... Caesar or Scipio, because they faced different circumstances, with far different variables. Suffice it to say that both were great generals and yes, (this is for Cato's benefit) even that reviled and butchering law breaking Caesar is still very highly regarded among military historians. Keep in mind this thread is.... the Greatest Roman Figure. What does that mean? I don't know. Perhaps it means... name the most well known Roman... assuredly this is Gaius Julius Caesar beyond any shadow of a doubt. Perhaps it means, who best exemplifies Roman virtue and tradition? This would not be Caesar or any other player of the Late Republican dramatic period (in my opinion), regardless of our individual admiration or hatred for any particular individual. I personally don't feel that Caesar is the greatest Roman figure, but he is one of history's greatest and most influential characters.

Caesar was BORN to conquer? Did he inherit that from his ancestor Venus? Wow, have you been drinking Caesar's Kool-Aid or what?!? That's one thing Cato and I can happily agree upon. Lets keep the points within the realm of historical reality rather than the mythical.

Well, maybe 1,000 years from now people will be amazed by a flattened raccoon.

Run Away, Run Away! Oh no, wait, that was a rabbit

Caesar was interested in re-establishing the legacy of Marius after Sulla essentially erased his public image, but I've never really had the impression from the ancients that Caesar was very concerned about Sulla. Obviously Caesar's inclusion on the proscription roles and later refusal of the dictators divorce order make for a dramatic part of Caesar's character, but once Caesar went east, there seems to have been little conflict. Of course, he wisely stayed in Asia until Sulla's death, but there isn't really any surviving written accounts that terribly slander Sulla in favor of Caesar. Consider that the main sources... Plutarch (c. 45 - 125 AD) and Appian (c. 95 - 165 AD) lived and wrote long after Caesar, and actually used a great deal of Sulla's own words as source material. Appian for example, whose account of the Civil War era is perhaps the most important of any of the ancient sources come across as quite neutral. His description of the proscriptions of the second triumvirate certainly wouldn't make one think all that highly of Octavian. Add Livy to the mix (who's value in this time period is admittedly weak) and there is another ancient source who was known for having Republican leanings. Sulla's separation by a generation from the immediate timetable of events surrounding Caesar and the fall of the Republic probably shielded him a bit. While Sulla was decidely anti-populares and anti-Marius, it didn't make him beloved by the opposition and therefore not really a target for the Caesarians. Its not like Cato was running around extolling the great times under Sulla. Certainly he was hit residually by Caesar's pro-Marius campaign, but as the political agenda grew, I get the impression that Sulla was largely just remembered for what he was.

Caesar will always rank among the greatest because simply his name is synonomous with Rome. Personal feeling is irrelevant really. Whether we like it or not, the masses loved Caesar then, and in a way, they still love him now, no? At any rate, I am partial to the old Republic and think of men such as Marcus Furius Camillus, the conqueror of Veii, who helped subvert the possible kingship designs of Capitolinus, the man who was credited with the title of Second Founder of Rome when he supposedly routed the army of Brennus and the Gauls after they were paid off to leave Rome (though I believe any battle that occured was probably far less monumental than described and actually served as a way for the Romans to save face in light of their humiliation). He twice served as dictator and several times as military tribune with consular powers in a time of deep social upheaval and external conflict, bringing several neighboring city states within Rome's sphere of influence and helping to stabilize the ongoing and debilitating 'conflict of the orders' in the process. He was much beloved by the people, despite largely serving on the Patrician side of the struggle with the Plebes. He retired from public service perhaps as young as the age of 55 before succumbing to the plague the following year. Camillus is truly the first hero of Rome whose deeds can be believed (mostly) for the way they are written. Unlike Cincinnatus, whose entire story must be taken with a proverbial grain of salt, Camillus was a bonified heroic figure.

Maybe it would help if we merged the Dakotas and the Carolinas (North and South). That would be two less completely independent state governments and such. If that doesn't help I suggest expelling Michigan's upper peninsula. It truly is another country up there and its already on the border with Canada... redrawing the maps wont be so difficult anyway

While its true that our populations are aging as birth rates decrease (hence the tendency for western nations to turn to faster birth rate immigrant groups as supplements), do you suggest that if we can only force everyone to believe in Jesus, then all our problems will go away? What I mean is, we can lay blame for anything, on anyone we'd like, but we can't turn back the clock.

If you'll notice, you're actually just describing the highest concentrations of population rather than a political agenda affecting income contributions of states. The highest population centers also have the highest concentration of commercial and industry centers. Therefore regardless of politics, the highest contributions to the GDP will come from the highest population centers. I find the county by county results to be far more interesting. Democrats control most of the major urban areas while the Republicans dominate the rural and a great deal of the suburban areas. Here's a good map at the University of Michigan

Well Napster isn't the only file sharing destination around. Limewire is still going and maintains a fairly large network. They have built in copyright violation notices, so if downloading a file would be considered a violation, they will ask you if you still want to do it. Of course, downloading music and movies is generally considered a violation, so of course you would be file sharing at your own risk.

How do you americans cope with all those tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes.... it is all about statistics, i guess... Here in Michigan there isn't too much to worry about regarding that stuff. The tornado season isn't fun, but its nothing like living in the flatlands of Kansas and such. The occasional blizzard or ice storm makes life miserable for a while but isn't all that terrible in the big scheme of things. No earthquakes, volcanoes or hurricanes up here. As for animals, there are things like Brown Recluse spiders that can leave a nasty bite but rarely kill a healthy adult, but for the most part we are free of anything all that dangerous. Sure there are bears and wolves but its not like they are just wandering around populated areas. Although strangely enough, a friend of mine once found a black widow spider in a bunch of grapes that he bought from the grocery store. When he called the store, they said... yeah that happens sometimes, try not to let it bite you. He kept it in a jar in his garage for several months before it finally succumbed to Michigan winter. P.S. How do you Austrians deal with all those damned Kangaroos? (inside joke for Viggen... which reminds me Vig, do you have a link to that tourist site 'No Kangaroos in Austria')

I've changed the Ethics forum into a more comprehensive Culture forum.. hopefully that will suit our needs. At some point we can always add subforums if the demand is there.

Which is why I deleted my post rather than add to an escalation (I meant to illustrate how we will never agree on the issue but sounded a bit harsher than intended). No worries though