Mosquito

No, i repeat that tribunes were not magistrates of any kind. They were elected by plebeian assembly, they were leading plebeian assembly, they were protecting the interests of plebs against patricians. Thats all, they were not magistrates of any kind and no Roman would call a tribune - magistratus.

The whole question or topic is terribly stupid. It has never been a matter of honour on either side. We just got a struggle for power between one great individuality, an outstaning man, extremly intelliget and able who was aiming to get full power and the clique of aristocracy, often interesting characters but usually a mediocre people who wanted to keep their privilages and power. There are no good guys and no bad guys. Some people just like to use notions like honour and good for their own interests.

Its a second time when i correct your mistake. Tribunes of plebs were not magistrates. They were representants of plebs but not magistrates. The numbers of magistrates you gave are valid only for the end of republic. In times of Sulla were only 8 praetors and 4 aediles. Sulla raised the number of questors to 20. Taking for consideration period 78-49 BC doesnt have any sence. Republic lasted for over 400 years, discussing only the period when it was falling down and didnt work as it use to work in the past wont give us any contructive conclusions. So far i see M.Porcius Cato you dont understand how really political system of Roman Republic was working. The leading role belonged to SENATE which was influecing both magistrates and assemblies. In fact it were senatorial famillies that ruled Rome. Most of the senators didnt even had right to speak in senate. The few who could and who were responsible for Rome's politic's were ex consuls ex censors and somtimes ex praetors.

So far i know patricians were usually adopting only sons of patricians famillies. Fabius or Cornelius wouldnt adopt a man of even one of the best plebeian famillies. If i remember well (i didnt check it now but i think i have read somthing about it in the past) there were many second or third sons of gens Claudii who were adopted into Fabii and even some other patrician famillies. NOBILITAS is the word you are looking for. Not Oligarchs or leading familly. They were called nobilitas, the men, the famillies who had ancestors that achieved consulship.

Dont forget adoptions. The whole Fabii clan in the late republic existed only because of them.

Ok, here you got it, the list for 200 years: 300 Marcus Valerius M.f. Corvus V, Quintus Appuleius Pansa 299 Marcus Fulvius Cn.f. Paetinus, Titus Manlius T.f. Torquatus, Suffect: Marcus Valerius M.f. Corvus VI 298 Lucius Cornelius Cn.f. Scipio Barbatus, Gnaeus Fulvius Cn.f. Maximus Centumalus 297 Quintus Fabius Maximus Rullianus IV, Publius Decius P.f. Mus III 296 Appius Claudius C.f. Caecus II, Lucius Volumnius C.f. Flamma Violens II. 295 Quintus Fabius Maximus Rullianus V, Publius Decius P.f. Mus IV 294 Lucius Postumius L.f. Megellus II, who was recalled. Marcus Atilius M.f. Regulus 293 Lucius Papirius L.f. Cursor, Spurius Carvilius C.f. Maximus 292 Quintus Fabius Q.f. Maximus Gurges, Decimus Iunius D.f. Brutus Scaeva 291 Lucius Postumius L.f. Megellus III, Gaius Iunius C.f. Bubulcus Brutus 290 Manius Curius Dentatus I, Publius Cornelius Cn.f. Rufinus 289 Marcus Valerius M.f. Maximus Corvinus II, Quintus Caedicius Q.f. Noctua 288 Quintus Marcius Q.f. Tremulus II, Publius Cornelius A.f. Arvina II 287 Marcus Claudius M.f. Marcellus, Gaius Nautius Rutilus 286 Marcus Valerius Maximus (Potitus?), Gaius Aelius Paetus 285 Gaius Claudius M.f. Canina, Marcus Aemilius Lepidus 284 Gaius Servilius Tucca, Lucius Caecilius (Caelius) Metellus Denter, Suffect: Manius Curius Dentatus 283 Publius Cornelius Dolabella, Gnaeus Domitius Cn.f. Calvinus Maximus 282 Gaius Fabricius Luscinus, Quintus Aemilius Cn.f. Papus 281 Lucius Aemilius Q.f. Barbula, Quintus Marcius Q.f. Philippus 280 Publius Valerius Laevinus, Tiberius Coruncanius 279 Publius Sulpicius P.f. Saverrio, Publius Decius P.f. Mus 278 Gaius Fabricius Luscinus II, Quintus Aemilius Cn.f. Papus II 277 Publius Cornelius Cn.f. Rufinus II, Gaius Iunius C.f. Bubulcus Brutus I 276 Quintus Fabius Q.f. Maximus Gurges II, Gaius Genucius L.f. Clepsina 275 Manius Curius Dentatus II, Lucius Cornelius Ti.f Lentulus 274 Manius Curius Dentatus III, Servius Cornelius P.f. Merenda 273 Gaius Fabius M.f. Dorso Licinus, Gaius Claudius M.f. Canina II 272 Lucius Papirius L.f. Cursor II, Spurius Carvilius C.f. Maximus II 271 Gaius (or Kaeso) Quinctius L.f. Claudus, Lucius Genucius L.f. Clepsina 270 Gaius Genucius L.f. Clepsina II, Gnaeus Cornelius P.f. Blasio 269 Quintus Ogulnius L.f. Gallus, Gaius Fabius C.f. Pictor 268 Publius Sempronius P.f. Sophus, Appius Claudius Ap.f. Russus 267 Marcus Atilius Regulus, Lucius Iulius L.f. Libo 266 Decimus Iunius D.f. Pera, Numerius Fabius C.f. Pictor 265 Quintus Fabius Q.f. Maximus Gurges III, Lucius Mamilius Q.f. Vitulus 264 Appius Claudius C.f. Caudex, Marcus Fulvius Q.f. Flaccus 263 M' Otacilius C.f. Crassus, M' Valerius M.f. Maximus (Messalla) 262 Lucius Postumius (Albinus) L.f. Megellus, Quintus Mamilius Q.f. Vitulus 261 Lucius Valerius M.f. Flaccus, Tiberius Otacilius C.f. Crassus 260 Gnaeus Cornelius Scipio Asina, Gaius Duilius 259 Lucius Cornelius Scipio, Caius Aquillius M.f. Florus 258 Aulus Atilius A.f. Calatinus, Gaius Sulpicius Q.f. Paterculus 257 Gaius Atilius M.f. Regulus, Gnaeus Cornelius P.f. Blasio II 256 Lucius Manlius A.f. Vulso Longus I, Quintus Caedicius Q.f. Suffect: Marcus Atilius Regulus II 255 Marcus Aemilius M.f. Paullus, Servius Fulvius M.f. Paetinus Nobilior 254 Gnaeus Cornelius Scipio Asina II, Aulus Atilius A.f. Calatinus II 253 Gnaeus Servilius Cn.f. Caepio, Gaius Sempronius Ti.f. Blaesus 252 Gaius Aurelius L.f. Cotta, Publius Servilius Q.f. Geminus 251 Lucius Caecilius L.f. Metellus I, Gaius Furius Pacilus 250 Gaius Atilius M.f. Regulus II, Lucius Manlius A.f. Vulso Longus II 249 Publius Claudius Pulcher, Lucius Iunius C.f. Pullus 248 Gaius Aurelius L.f. Cotta II, Publius Servilius Q.f. Geminus II 247 Lucius Caecilius L.f. Metellus II, Numerius (Marcus) Fabius M.f. Buteo 246 Manius Otacilius C.f. Crassus II, Marcus Fabius C.f. Licinus 245 Marcus Fabius M.f. Buteo, Gaius Atilius A.f. Bulbus 244 Aulus Manlius T.f. Torquatus Atticus I, Gaius Sempronius Ti.f. Blaesus II 243 Gaius Fundanius C.f. Fundulus, Gaius Sulpicius C.f. Galus 242 Gaius Lutatius C.f. Catulus, Aulus Postumius A.f. Albinus 241 Aulus Manlius Titus f. Torquatus Atticus II, Quintus Lutatius Catulus f. Cerco 240 Gaius Claudius Ap.f. C.n. Centho, Marcus Sempronius C.f. Tuditanus 239 Gaius Mamilius Q.f. Turrinus, Quintus Valerius Q.f. Falto 238 Tiberius Sempronius Ti.f. Gracchus, Pub. Valerius Q.f. Falto 237 Lucius Cornelius L.f. Lentulus Caudinus, Quintus Fulvius M.f. Flaccus 236 Publius Cornelius L.f. Lentulus Caudinus, Gaius Licinius P.f. Varus 235 Titus Manlius T.f. Torquatus I, Gaius Atilius A.f. Bulbus II 234 Lucius Postumius A.f. Albinus, Spurius Carvilius Sp.f. Maximus Ruga 233 Quintus Fabius Q.f. Maximus Verrucosus I, M' Pomponius M.f. Matho 232 Marcus Aemilius M.f. Lepidus, Marcus Publicius L.f. Malleolus 231 Marcus Pomponius M'.f. Matho, Gaius Papirius C.f. Maso 230 Marcus Aemilius L.f. Barbula, Marcus Iunius D.f. Pera 229 Lucius Postumius A.f. Albinus II, Gnaeus Fulvius Cn.f. Centumalus, 228 Spurius Carvilius Sp.f. Maximus Ruga II, Quintus Fabius Q.f. Maximus Verrucosus II 227 Publius Valerius L.f. Flaccus, Marcus Atilius M.f. Regulus 226 Marcus Valerius M'.f. Maximus Messala, Lucius Apustius L.f. Fullo 225 Lucius Aemilius Q.f. Papus, Gaius Atilius M.f. Regulus 224 Titus Manlius T.f. Torquatus II, Quintus Fulvius M.f. Flaccus II 223 Gaius Flaminius C.f., Publius Furius Sp.f. Philus 222 Gnaeus Cornelius Scipio Calvus, Marcus Claudius M.f. Marcellus I 221 Publius Cornelius Cn.f. Scipio Asina, Marcus Minucius C.f. Rufus, Suffect: Marcus Aemilius M.f. Lepidus II 220 Lucius Veturius L.f. Philo, Gaius Lutatius Catulus 219 Lucius Aemilius M.f. Paulus, Marcus Livius M.f. Salinator 218 Publius Cornelius L.f. Scipio, Tiberius Sempronius C.f. Longus 217 Gaius Servilius P.f. Geminus, Gaius Flaminius C.f. II. Suffect: Marcus Atilius M.f. Regulus II 216 Lucius Aemilius Paullus II, Gaius Terentius C.f. Varro 215 Tiberius Sempronius Ti.f. Gracchus, Lucius Postumius A.f. Albinus III. Suffect: Marcus Claudius M.f. Marcellus II abd., Quintus Fabius Q.f. Maximus Verrucosus III 214 Quintus Fabius Q.f. Maximus Verrucosus IV, Marcus Claudius M.f. Marcellus III 213 Quintus Fabius Q.f. Maximus, Tiberius Sempronius Ti.f. Gracchus II 212 Appius Claudius P.f. Pulcher, Quintus Fulvius M.f. Flaccus III 211 Publius Sulpicius Ser.f. Galba Maximus I, Gnaeus Fulvius Cn.f. Centumalus Maximus 210 Marcus Valerius P.f. Laevinus II, Marcus Claudius M.f. Marcellus IV 209 Quintus Fabius Q.f. Maximus Verrucosus V, Quintus Fulvius M.f. Flaccus IV 208 Marcus Claudius M.f. Marcellus V, Titus Quinctius L.f. Crispinus 207 Gaius Claudius Ti.f. Nero, Marcus Livius M.f. Salinator II 206 Quintus Caecilius L.f. Metellus, Lucius Veturius L.f. Philo 205 Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus, Publius Licinius P.f. Crassus Dives 204 Marcus Cornelius M.f. Cethegus, Publius Sempronius C.f. Tuditanus 203 Gnaeus Servilius Cn.f. Caepio, Gaius Servilius C.f. Geminus 202 Tiberius Claudius P.f. Nero, Marcus Servilius C.f. Pulex Geminus 201 Gnaeus Cornelius L.f. Lentulus, Publius Aelius Q.f. Paetus 200 Publius Sulpicius Ser.f. Galba Maximus II, Gaius Aurelius C.f. Cotta 199 Lucius Cornelius L.f. Lentulus, Publius Villius Ti.f. Tappulus 198 Titus Quinctius T.f. Flamininus, Sextus Aelius Q.f. Paetus Catus 197 Gaius Cornelius L.f. Cethegus, Quintus Minucius C.f. Rufus 196 Lucius Furius Sp.f. Purpureo, Marcus Claudius M.f. Marcellus 195 Marcus Porcius M.f. Cato, Lucius Valerius P.f. Flaccus 194 Publius Cornelius P.f. Scipio Africanus II, |Tiberius Sempronius Ti.f. Longus 193 Lucius Cornelius L.f. Merula, Aulus Minucius Q.f. Thermus 192 Lucius Quinctius T.f. Flamininus, Gnaeus Domitius L.f. Ahenobarbus 191 Manius Acilius C.f. Glabrio, Publius Cornelius Cn.f. Scipio Nasica 190 Lucius Cornelius P.f. Scipio Asiaticus, Gaius Laelius C.f 189 Gnaeus Manlius Cn.f. Vulso, Marcus Fulvius M.f. Nobilior 188 Gaius Livius M.f. Salinator, Marcus Valerius M.f. Messalla 187 Marcus Aemilius M.f. Lepidus I, Gaius Flaminius C.f. 186 Spurius Postumius L.f. Albinus, Quintus Marcius L.f. Philippus I 185 Appius Claudius Ap.f. Pulcher, Marcus Sempronius M.f. Tuditanus 184 Publius Claudius Ap.f. Pulcher, Lucius Porcius L.f. Licinus 183 Quintus Fabius Q.f. Labeo, Marcus Claudius M.f. Marcellus 182 Lucius Aemilius L.f. Paullus, Gnaeus Baebius Q.f. Tamphilus 181 Publius Cornelius Cethegus, Marcus Baebius Q.f. Tamphilus 180 Aulus Postumius A.f. Albinus (Luscus), Gaius Calpurnius C.f. Piso. Suffect: Quintus Fulvius Cn.f. Flaccus 179 Lucius Manlius L.f. Acidinus Fulvianus, Quintus Fulvius Q.f. Flaccus 178 Marcus Iunius M.f. Brutus, Aulus Manlius Cn.f. Vulso 177 Gaius Claudius Ap.f. Pulcher, Tiberius Sempronius P.f. Gracchus 176 Gnaeus Cornelius Cn.f. Scipio Hispallus, Quintus Petillius. Suffect: Gaius Valerius M.f. Laevinus 175 Publius Mucius Q.f. Scaevola, Marcus Aemilius M.f. Lepidus II 174 Spurius Postumius A.f. Albinus Paullulus, Quintus Mucius Q.f. Scaevola 173 Lucius Postumius A.f. Albinus, Marcus Popillius P.f. Laenas 172 Gaius Popillius P.f. Laenas I, Publius Aelius P.f. Ligus 171 Publius Licinius C.f. Crassus, Gaius Cassius C.f. Longinus. 170 Aulus Hostilius L.f. Mancinus, Aulus Atilius C.f. Serranus 169 Quintus Marcius L.f. Philippus II, Gnaeus Servilius Cn.f. Caepio 168 Lucius Aemilius L.f. Paullus II, Gaius Licinius C.f. Crassus 167 Quintus Aelius Paetus, Marcus Junius Pennus 166 Gaius Sulpicius Galba, Marcus Claudius Marcellus I 165 Tiberius Manlius Torquatus, Gnaeus Octavius 164 Aulus Manlius Torquatus, Quintus Cassius Longinus 163 Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus II, Marcus Juventius Thalna 162 Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica Corculum I, Gaius Marcius Figulus I, Suffect: Publius Cornelius Lentulus, Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus 161 Marcus Valerius Messalla, Gaius Fannius Strabo 160 Marcus Cornelius Cethegus, Lucius Anicius Gallus 159 Gnaeus Cornelius Dolabella, Marcus Fulvius Nobilior 158 Marcus Aemilius Lepidus, Gaius Popillius P.f. Laenas II 157 Servius Julius Caesar, Lucius Aurelius Orestes 156 Lucius Cornelius Lentulus Lupus, Gaius Marcius Figulus II 155 Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica Corculum II, Marcus Claudius Marcellus II 154 Lucius Postumius Albinus, Quintus Opimius 153 Tiberius Annius Luscus, Quintus Fulvius Nobilior 152 Lucius Valerius Flaccus, Marcus Claudius Marcellus III 151 Aulus Postumius Albinus, Lucius Licinius Lucullus 150 Tiberius Quinctius Flaminius, M' Acilius Balbus 149 Manius Manilius, Marcius Censorinus 148 Spurius Postumius Albinus Magnus, Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus 147 Publius Cornelius Scipio Aemilianus Africanus I, Gaius Livius Drusus 146 Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus, Lucius Mummius Achaicus 145 Quintus Fabius Maximus Aemilianus, Lucius Hostilius Mancinus 144 Servius Sulpicius Ser.f. Galba, Lucius Aurelius Cotta 143 Appius Claudius Pulcher, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus 142 Quintus Fabius Maximus Servilianus, Lucius Caecilius Metellus Calvus 141 Gnaeus Servilius Caepio, Quintus Pompeius 140 Quintus Servilius Caepio, Gaius Laelius Sapiens 139 Gnaeus Calpurnius Piso, Marcus Popillius Laenas 138 Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica Serapio, Decimus Junius Brutus Callaicus 137 Marcus Aemilius Lepidus Porcina, Gaius Hostilius Mancinus 136 Lucius Furius Philus, Sextus Atilius Serranus 135 Quintus Calpurnius Piso, Servius Fulvius Flaccus 134 Gaius Fulvius Flaccus, Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus Aemilianus II 133 Lucius Calpurnius Piso Frugi, Publius Mucius Scaevola 132 Publius Popillius Laenas, Publius Rupilius 131 Lucius Valerius Flaccus, Publius Licinius Crassus Dives Mucianus 130 Lucius Cornelius Lentulus, Marcus Perperna Suffect: Appius Claudius Nero 129 Gaius Sempronius Tuditanus, Manius Aquillius 128 Titus Annius Rufus, Gnaeus Octavius 127 Lucius Cornelius Cinna, Lucius Cassius Longinus Ravilla 126 Marcus Aemilius Lepidus, Lucius Aurelius Orestes 125 Marcus Fulvius M.f. Flaccus, Marcus Plautius Hypsaeus 124 Gaius Cassius Longinus, Gaius Sextius Calvinus 123 Titus Quinctius Flaminius, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Balearicus 122 Gnaeus Domitius Ahenobarbus, Gaius Fannius 121 Quintus Fabius Maximus Allobrogicus, Lucius Opimius 120 Gaius Papirius Carbo, Publius Manilius 119 Lucius Aurelius Cotta, Lucius Caecilius Metellus Delmaticus 118 Quintus Marcius Rex, Marcus Porcius Cato 117 Lucius Caecilius Metellus Diadematus, Quintus Mucius Scaevola 116 Quintus Fabius Maximus Eburnus, Gaius Licinius Geta 115 Marcus Aemilius Scaurus, Marcus Caecilius Metellus 114 Manius Acilius Balbus, Gaius Porcius Cato 113 Gnaeus Papirius Carbo, Gaius Caecilius Metellus Caprarius 112 Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus, Marcus Livius Drusus 111 Publius Cornelius Scipio Nasica Serapio, Lucius Calpurnius Bestia 110 Spurius Postumius Albinus, Marcus Minucius Rufus 109 Quintus Caecilius Metellus Numidicus, Marcus Junius Silanus 108 Servius Sulpicius Galba, Lucius Hortensius Suffect: Marcus Aurelius Scaurus 107 Lucius Cassius Longinus, Gaius Marius I 106 Quintus Servilius Caepio, Gaius Atilius Serranus 105 Gnaeus Mallius Maximus, Publius Rutilius Rufus 104 Gaius Flavius Fimbria, Gaius Marius II 103 Lucius Aurelius Orestes, Gaius Marius III 102 Quintus Lutatius Catulus, Gaius Marius IIII 101 Manius Aquillius, Gaius Marius V It is enough to add some other nobile patrician and plebian famillies to those i posted earlier, such like: Valerii, Caecillii, Calpurnii, Livii, Mucii, Marcii, Licinii, Aurelii, Domitii etc and few homines novi who were joining nobilitas like Pompeii or Porcii, Aye, magistrates were elected by centurial assembly where in fact 2 first richest classes had decisive votes.

As we were talking about fasti i listed only consuls. But well, praetors also had fasti. And tribunes of plebs were not magistrates. They were representants of plebs but not magistrates so you cant count them. 10 praetors? First was only one praetor and noone knows what he was really doing in the begining of republic. It was praetor maximus. After judical power was separated from consulship there was 1 praetor. In the 4th century BC additional praetor for foreigners was added. After Sicilly and Sardinia became provinces 2 more praetors were elected. Sulla raised number of praetors to 8. Caesar raised number of praetors to 16. Aediles were only 4. And questor was really a minor office which untill Sulla didnt even give the right to sit in the senate after term was over

I'm pretty sure this statistic is incomplete or a complete fabrication. Source? BTW, even if it were true that 30 families were contributing the majority of magistracies, it doesn't hold that this inequality is symptomatic of a lack of liberty. Consider a paragon of free speech like UNRV, where the top 30 posters (of around 2000 registered users) have contributed almost 2/3 of the posts to the forum. Obviously, there is nothing about equal rights that ensures equal contributions: some families cultivated politicians, whereas the vast majority did not. Between consulship of Manius Acylius Glabrio in 191 BCE and first consulship of Gaius Marius only 2 homines novi were elected for consuls. For 222 consuls elected between 218 BCE and 108 BCE: 24 were Cornelii 15 were Claudii 10 were Fulvii 9 were Aemilii 9 were Postumii 8 were Fabii 8 were Sempronii I would say that it wasnt 30 famillies that were contributing majority of magistrates but even less. In fact the rank of consul was reserved for only about 20 famillies.

Caesar was already facing prosecution for several crimes, including his violation of the leges Fufia et Aeilia as consul and his illegal crossing into Germania and Britain as proconsul. Well, as long as he had imperium he couldnt have been prosecuted for any real or imaginative crimes. I think you hit the point here. But what about tribunes of plebs who tried to veto it and were attacked in the senate?

Not really. All this happend after anihilation of the last great Ottoman army in Vienna. And before Poles came the Habsburgs werent able to free the city. Not to mention the fact that it was Polish cavalry that made most of the job on the battlfield in Vienna.

Caesar was in his province and didnt commit any crime when SCU was voted. His march to Rome was his reaction for SCU. Since SCU was enacted all the Roman officials and citisens had right to kill him and thats why he has crossed Rubicon river. Remember Catiline case? He and his followers were sentenced to death by senate and later it was found illegal. Cicero was exiled for it.

The law which was allowing every Roman citisen to appeal for mercy to the People's assembly.

Ottoman army was under command of grand vezir Kara Mustafa. Sultan wasnt there.

Swedes were important because Sobieski planned to ally with them, French and Ottomans against Prussia and Austria. When Swedes were defeated by Prussians and French gave up the idea of this alliance, Sobieski being not able to ally with Ottomans, allied with Hapsburgs. I mean that the relief of Vienna was a result of failed pro french policy of king John Sobieski.

It was all because of French, Turks, Sewedes and Poles. Poland was already weakened and its power was fast declining. The whole 17th century was for the Republic - so called "Commonwealth of two nations" the time of war but second half of century was a disaster. Altough Republic defended itself from all the invasions it lost half of the Ukraine and part of Russia. In menpower it lost bigger percentage of population than during WW2. After finally defeated Cossaks, Tartars, Swedes and Russians, Poland was attacked by Ottomans. In brillant campaign hetman John Sobieski defeated them and due to popularity gained on the battlefield was elected for the new king. Since the begining he didnt want any more wars against Ottomans, he spoke Turkish, he loved ottoman culture and he was ready to ally with Ottomans. His aim was Prussia which already declared independence from Poland. But when Ottomans started negotiating conditions of alliance with Russia, after Swedes were defeated by Prussia and French allied with Prussia, Sobieski was given no choise and allied with Austria. There are rumours that next movie of Mell Gibson will be titled "Victoria" and that Gibson will play the role of John III Sobieski of Poland.

I dont think that quoting Cicero who was maybe a great orator but also an arselicker of Caesar who changed the sides when opportunity was given can play in this discussion the role of "unbiased comment". Veto of Antonius supported by veto of another tribune Quintus Cassius Longinus was ignored. Antonius himself - what was against the law - was in fact banished from senate and Cassius joined him. Treating tribune of plebs in this way was violation of mos maiorum. Big part of senators was against voting SCU. Many of them were simply forced by Pompey, Cato & company. By the way i belive that the institution of SCU was illegal. If i remember well it was first used against Gaius Gracchus. By voting SCU senate was usurping power to kill Roman citisens, power which was reserved for comittia. And people who were declared as enemies of state by SCU had no chance to appeal to the People of Rome. Basing on the power of SCU senate was murdering thousands of people. M. Porcius Cato - and I just belive that it wasnt and couldnt be legal to declare people enemies of state and to give them death sentences only because some party had one day majority in the senate. SCU was nothing more but death sentence directed against person listed in this SCU and all the people who follow or support him. Remember Catiline case? Yes, Cicero did it, but later he had to pay for it as it was found illegal.

Affcourse leading an army to Rome was illegal and i think there is no other viev possible. The real question is - was the senatus consultum ultimum - which was directed against Caesar - legal or not. In his book Caesar called it illegal and considered as overreaction. ""Recourse is had to that extreme and final decree of the senate(which was never resorted to even by daring proposers except when the city was in danger of being set on fire, or when the public safety was despaired of)"That the consuls, praetors, tribunes of the people, and proconsuls in the city should take care that the state received no injury." G. Julius Cesar, ""Comentarii de bello civili"" Caesar has never claimed himself that his march to Rome was legal. He only justifeid his action by the fact that in his opinion the bill of Senate was illegal and that the rights of tribunes of plebs were broken. Therefore he decided to march on Rome to protect mos maiorum and to save the republic. He sacrified one "lesser good" to protect "greater good".

Considering the fact that very often people in the same familly had exactly the same names and surnames, additional honorary title/agnomen was helping a lot to distinguish someone inside familly. For example - Gaius Iulius Caesar - was father of Caesar, probably grandfather of Caesar, Caesar himself - the one whom we call a Caesar dictator, Augustus after being adopted by Caesar and also Caligula - after being adopted by Tiberius. Most of aristocratic famillies in Rome used only 1 or 2 names which were given to sons and those names often repeat for centuries. I know that it is a little bit off topic but if some of Romans didnt get extra names i would have myself a real problem when learning ancient Roman history To say truth i still have and often when i get deeper into Roman history im not sure if the peron i read about is the one i think or his father or his son.