Bryaxis Hecatee

The map I posted in the first post of the thread is about all you'll get as general map of the site. And I have not found any other more detailled. In fact we have been using it all year long for our lessons. What there is is some more detailled maps of particular buildings, eventually some small areas ( I've seen a map showing the San Pietro hill, in this case the temple, the San Pietro domus, the Amphitheater, Macro's domus ( also called house of the Amphitheater ) and the terrasse system with one or two streets also drawn on it. But il left quite a lot of white on the map... Unfortunately I doubt very much that those maps are on the web, you will probably have to go directly to the archeological reports of the digs ( either the original serie on the digs at Alba Fucens or some dispersed articles like the one on the Domus of the Via del Miliarii which is published in the hommage book offered to Mertens ).

I'll try to answer you in some few words Klingan : - The town seems to have been abandoned in the 5th or 6th century after an earthquake in the 4th century ( the one which damaged the Colosseum at Rome ). The latest literary mention is a mention in the campaigns of Belissarius, but it is not sure that the site was still habited at that time. There are very few remains of that period in the recorded archaeological remains ( the question being as always to know if the previous teams on the site have recorder finds from that period... We know they have for 4th century finds but the rest is not sure ). But as early as the 6th century transformations were made to the temple of the San Pietro hill, converting it in a church, which took most of it's current aspect in the 13th century. In between a new settlement had been born on the northernmost hill ( thought to be the Marsi oppidum and the Capitol of the city ). - The macellum is thought to have been a luxury market because of it's size, the size of the shops, the work it underwent during the 2nd century BC, ect... But their is no formal confirmation, no remains of industrial production for exemple. Fish shops can't be ruled out ( since their was the nearby lake Fucino ) and meat shops certainly can't be ruled out ( since the town was essential to the flock herding system of central Italy ). Thus the word macellum must be understood here in a general meaning of market. But one must notice the huge amount of tabernae on both the Via dei Pilastrii and Vie del Miliario which could very well have been meant for the lesser trades and the macellum kept for the more costly items. - No remains of industrial activity have been found yet in the town, mostly because they were not looked for by Mertens and later archaeologists. Work has mostly been concentrated on the two hills temples and the city center, with 5 private houses to have some idea of the local fashion. But it seems that the main activity of the town was the trade of livestock with the two great places south of the Forum as economical heart of the city. The size of the few excavated houses also makes one think that it was mainly a "bourgeois" city for the great livestock owners with few poor peoples in it, those living mainly as farmer outside of the town. Also, until the draining of a part of lake Fucino under Claudius there was not much land to cultivate, and most grain had to be imported to Alba Fucens. Thus it is probable that any milling quarters, if they existed, would be rather small. Your comment about Pompey is interesting I think because it is rather true that this town was more of an elite town with quite some rather rich peoples in it, but I'm not sure the analogy can get very far because Pompey was in a rich area and in the midst of a great farms system while this was not the case in the mountains. The economy here was built on another trade and the life in the mountains was different than the life in the campanian plain. Also one must not forget that the economical role of the city was secondary in the mind of it's founders since it was first a fortress with impressive walls ( of which I do not give much pictures because I didn't see much during my visit ) : economic prosperity only came later, in the second half of the first century AD, and developed in a monumental context that was the one given to it by the supporters of Sylla after the social war during which it had been taken and burned by the Italians.

Well I'm more a specialist of the Greek military questions than of the roman ones, since my end of studies paper relates to the logistic of the Greek armies in the classical era, but I see that Greeks had surgeons on the battle field at least since Homer ( at which time the surgeon was also a combatant ), and certainly had city-surgeons in time of war during the 6th and 7th centuries BC. In the classical period the best source of information is Xenophon which shows us that the 10 000 had a corp of at least 8 surgeons during their retreat. Also the authors tells us ( Hippocrates, Gallien, ... ) that field surgeons where very good and also had a lot of practice and were a good place to start learning medicine. So I'd say the survival rate once found would be rather good. ( I'm called to eat so I can't continue my post, I'll be back later )

Ok, new pictures are online, still on flickr, and those are unfortunately the last ones I'll upload. They will show you the two great domus, the tabernae, the amphitheater, the San Pietro church ( built inside the old Apollo and Diane temple ), the southern terrass and part of the city wall. Enjoy at http://www.flickr.com/photos/bryaxis/ ! Also I've just began a new gallery here on UNRV with other pictures of my trip in Rome. This first one is about the Arch of Constantine next to the Colosseum.

I would have put Goldsworhty "In the Name of Rome: The Men Who Won the Roman Empire" in the list by the way

A church in Constantinople ?

The saepta and the theater are up. The Saepta, which separated the forum from the basilica, was probably the voting area. Numerous series of holes have been found in this space which must relate to the various voting rules ( amount of tribes, of censitary classes, ... ? ). While the area was at first a simple empty space with holes it was later rebuilt with a full portico around it which shaded the holes ( and thus one must presume the voting officials ) The theater, as I've already written, as not been studied. But one can already see that it was done with quite some attention with the use of opus reticulatum for the outside face of the walls of the access passages ( here the northern one ). After accessing the theater we had to climb the whole hill ( there is no path leading up ) : my legs still aches !

Five new pictures online, all showing various aspects of the Basilica. The basilica was built just between the Saepta ( polling place ) and the Macellum. The terrain level changes so much at that place that the romans were able to build 4 rooms under the podium of the Basilica, which served as shops for the Macellum in it's 1st century BC form. The basilica had an outside wall then an inside portico. All was centered on the podium ( the raised area with red herbs ). Light came from above through large bays like in the Basilica Aemilia at Rome for exemple. It was the center of the juridical life of the city since justice was given in that place, but it has also political and commercial roles. More pictures of the Saepta and of the theater coming.

Isn't it ? And I just don't dare to think about what it will look like after the 3 or 4 archeological teams which should be working there this summer will finish their work ! The belgian team from my university will work in the south western part of the forum ( schola area, just south of the saepta and basilica ), a US team should be working either just south of the western domus ( where aerial photography shows that a second domus stands ) or on the northern side of the southernmost place ( the so called second livestock market, an identification which is not certain at the time ) in the area of the Isis sanctuary, and one italian team should keep digging the 1st livestock market ( the area currently being dug on the photo, where the blue plastic is, look at photo 9 ). Now for some more comments on the photos ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/bryaxis/ ) : Photo 7 : From the N-E corner of the Basilica toward the W Taken from one of the tabernae this picture shows the wall of the taberna, one of the pilaster of the via dei pilastrii, the street, the eastern wall of the Basilica, the Macellum complex, the western Domus, the hill of San Pietro and the church on top built upon the temple of Apollo and Diane ( ? ) Photo 8 : Hypocaust View taken from the Basilica on the hypocaust of the thermal complex between the Macellum and the livestock market. This does not date from the original plan of the town center but is part of the re-organisation of the second century AD, like the Macellum which changed from a square plan to a circular/octogonal one. Photo 9 : From livestock market toward Alba Vechia From the digs currently under way a view which shows the Hercule sanctuary ( left ) and a view toward the north and the medieval village, with the mount Velino in the background Photo 11 : Theater Never really studied the theater was built in the greek way by cutting into the hill and building a wall in front, with two lateral access between the wall and the hill. On the ground few remains can be seen : we have some stones from the scena, some opus reticulatum on the hill flank in the two lateral access passages, the lowest rank of benches. However the site should be dug soon since it has been cleared of all the bushes and trees that grew there less than a month ago. Photo 12 : View toward the south This view taken from the amphitheater shows how much Alba Fucens dominate the whole area. A great part of the lands that can be seen in the plain were covered by the lake Fucino, one third of which was emptied by the Emperor Claudius and which was completely emptied under Mussolini. This changes completely the landscape and the economy of the area. The works done to empty the lake were impressive, but luckily the lake was in a valley a bit higher than the next one and thus the roman could do a system which emptied the lake rather easily ( if you except a whole tunnel under the mountain... ) which gave a lot of land to cultivate, and thus gave a great prosperity to the whole area. For the other pictures I've nothing to had beside what's been said on flickr. Do not hesitate to ask questions or for specific buildings, either here or on flickr !

Perfect answer. It might surprise some to learn that it seems that the building was never used, maybe due to a non-working innovative heating system.

Well I'll do it then... Let's find this one

I just want to say before I go to the university that I'm trying to localise each photo on the map at Flickr in order to show you where the picture has been taken so that you can represent the geography

Ok, I'm currently updating some more pictures, while this goes on I'll give you some more data on what is on them. Note that the 1st picture I comment is the first I posted but that it appears as the last one in flickr : you must go backward to read them in the correct order. Photo 1 : Mount Velino The site is dominated by Mount Velino, which is the main landmark of the area. Photo 2 : Alba Fucens from the west This picture is taken from the modern settlement of Alba Fucens, right next to the tourist information center, and it shows the antique town from the west. In the background you have the south-eastern hill and the small path leads to the north-western corner of the basilica. Photo 3 : Via del Miliarii This street, on the western side of the Basilica, was given it's name when a milestone of Emperor Maxentius was found there. The picture looks from the S-W corner of the Basilica toward the south. Photo 4 : The Macellum View of the luxury market of Alba Fucens from the Basilica's podium, the visible remains are of the second phase of the building dating from the second century AD. Photo 5 : Domus This big domus, M on the map, is almost as big as the Basilica. The front had some tabernae and a majestuous entry made by a stair, a terasse, an impluvium and a very big peristyle garden. More pictures will come later, including some mosaics. Photo 6 : Hercule Sanctuary The sanctuary of Hercule seen from the south. One can still see the remains of stucco and the bases of the 4 columns which carried a baldaquin over a statue of Hercule.

I got some problems with the pictures for I can't host the 216mo of pictures of Alba Fucens on my website, I'm putting them in flickr.com ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/bryaxis/ ) with a quick description for each, more will come as well as other comments on the town on this thread. And to answer you Klingan I'm studying at Brussel's University ( ULB ), this is part of my course of advanced roman art and archeology study in the program of my Master in Ancient History. The course is given by Pr. C. Evers, curator of roman antiquities at Brussel's Royal Museum for Art and History ( www.mrah.be ).

I imagine Bryaxis can tell us something about the map, but in the meantime, Augusta, try right-clicking on the map and select "Properties". Then paste the resulting URL into your browser window, deleting part of it from the right up to the first slash. The resulting directory contains a number of maps and interesting illustrations. Bryaxis, sounds like you had quite an enriching archaeology course this year. Thanks for sharing. -- Nephele Yes the map I used to show you were Alba Fucens was does indeed gives the situation of the legions prior to the Perusian war, it was the first map showing Alba Fucens I found in google. Now I'll continue this serie with some pictures and more explanations on the town

Welcome on this thread. It will be about the italian town of Alba Fucens, from which I just came back some days ago and which is the subject on my roman archeology course this year... Thus you'll have detailed informations and recent pictures of the site. But you might first wonder about where the hell is Alba Fucens ? It is situated some 70 miles east of Rome as shown on this map : Founded in the late fourth century it was designed as a fortress to dominate the local Marsi tribes which had recently been defeated. It had Roman Colony statut and counted 6000 colons ( a very big amount of men for a colony ). This is usually thought to date from 303 BC. The site chosen was a long plain between three hills, dominating the Lake Fuscino plain and very important roads leading to Rome. It might have been the site of a Marsi town or oppidum but no finds allows us to tell it with any certainty. The plan shows the general disposition of the place. The broken line area has never been dug because it lays under a medieval village destroyed early in the last century by an earthquake. In P you have the northern terrass, A the comitium, B the forum, C the Schola, the Basilica and the Macellum area, D the livestock market, E the second livestock market ( ? ), J and G being two temples. The capitolium has not been found yet and is thought to be under the medieval town. More will come soon !

The domus aurea I could not visit due to too busy a schedule, including a full day in Alba Fucens. But I'll share what you want of the ara pacis, trajan and marcus aurelius columns, alba fucens site, colosseum, fora, ...

A Roma, to remember that I was there not 5 hours ago, filling a bit less than 1go of pictures on my camera...

Ah, you were referring to the Hebrew word, from which we get "Passover". Still, I'm not familiar with the "stiff leg" meaning. -- Nephele Well I don't know the exact english word for someone who can't walk well due to having a leg hurt or unusable.

"Lemaire" may be a "public" name, but it's still a prestigious one, if my guess as to its etymology is correct. Do you know if your surname is derived from the Old French mair(e), which comes from the Latin maior, meaning greater, superior, and signifying the "best" or "chief" man of the community (much like the title "Mayor")? As for the name "Pascal"... And here I always thought it had something to do with being born at Eastertide. -- Nephele Yes Lemaire does indeed come down from the ancient latin word "maior" or "maius" or "magister", which gave words as master, meister, mestre ( = ancient french form of maitre, master ), maitre ( = master ), maire ( = mayor ). As for Pascal it is indeed connected to the Easter feast but Pesah means either "to pass by" or "to have a stiff leg"

Yes, I agree. Pascal Lemaire is a lovely name. But, to me, a "lovely name" is any name I can anagram! Wheee! Pascal Lemaire = Pericles Alama "Alama" - Arabic verb meaning "to know". Bryaxis, you're an omniscient Greek statesman! -- Nephele I thank you both, fair ladies, for your kind words ! I'm a bit surprised by them for my name never struck me as especially remarkable, Lemaire being a very popular name ( my mother even uses to say it's not a private name anymore but a public one ! ) while Pascal still means "he who has a stiff leg"... As for the name Pericles Alama I must confess that I like it very much, as it flatters my huge ego

Isn't it Claudius Ptolemaeus who, in his geographical work, gives a latitude for the town he mentions in his book ? While he is not always correct you could get an idea throug him.

Should all go well this summer I'll become the proud owner of a "Licence en Histoire, option Antiquit

Thank you for your work ! I'll take P. Laelius Macer then, in total contrast with my belly

In fact Hecatee is no godess but the name of the first historian of the greek world : if Herodotus is the father of history then Hecatee of Miletus is history's grandfather. The whole screen-name should in fact be Bryaxis ( from the sculptor of the northern face of Halicarnassus Mausoleum ), Hecatee from the historian, Pallasalexandride as a composite last name ( which could be translated as "he who comes down from Athena Pallas and Alexander the Great" ). It must be said that the name was first created for a role-play game where I was to be an important religious and political man with a great interest in culture, which I tried to give through the name... As for the real life name you can also play with it if you wish, it's Pascal Lemaire.