Caesar CXXXVII

I don't follow you. Opposite of what? Just my nonsense...I give a god, goddess, hero, nymph, etc and you give me a rhyming couplet... Don't take me too seriouslly on that...it is because English is not my language and I can't play .

Caesar to Caesar - don't listen to them, they would say anything to blacken this man, just remember who eventually conquered Gaul.....(and Rome), invaded Britain, smashed poor Pompey Magnus and his ants, was loved by the people and hated by aristocratic worms - Us ! Another 15 minutes with "them" and you will come up with Caesar as a little man who lost all his wars, killed everyone, was 1.42 meters with moustache on his nose and blue spots on his bold head . Alesia Shmalesia...

Can we play the opposite ? eee...eee.. Hercules !!!!

Well, he was Marcus Iulius Alexander !!! That is what I have ment . You see - Berenice married an Alexander... "extrodenery evidence" - Do we have evidence for Cos. suff. 116 that he was the son of of Gaius Iulius Alexander who became Marcus Iulius Agrippa in Ilan's chart ? We can agree that : 1. Con. suff. 116 was of Jewish origin (among others) as said in post 1 and on 2. We have one solid Berenicianus (Ben Matityahu's) 3. 116 and 132/3 seems too far for him to be the same one 4. We must (?) conjecture that the 116 was another one so we must (?) put him in another Herodian line 5. We came back to post no. 1 Asc' mentioned another consul from that family - Detalies would be welcome and so other names

See his comment (on the chart) about Gaius Berenicianus

Actually, no surprise. If you check on your own notes, you will verify we're talking about two Berenicianus: 1) Gaius Julius Alexander Berenicianus, Cos 116, son of Caius Iulus Alexander and Queen Julia Iotapa of Cetis; widely discussed in our previous posts. He was born circa 75 AD. 2) Berenicianus (one name), only knowm by one casual mention from FL Josephus (Antiquitates Judaicae, Liber XX, cp. V, sec II): " He (HEROD OF CHALCIS) left behind him three sons; Aristobulus, whom he had by his first wife, with Berenicianus, and Hyrcanus, both whom he had by Berenice his brother's daughter." (Ergo, he must have born between 46 AD -his parents marriage- and 49 AD -his father's death-) They were from different branches and different generations of the Herodian dynasty: # 1 was great-great-grandson of Alexander; # 2 was the grandson of Aristobolus; These Alexander and Aristobolus were brothers; the sons of Herod the Great by Mariamne. ie, Berenicianus # 2 was a cousin of Julius Tigranes (VI of Armenia), the paternal grandfather of Berenicianus # 1. Actually I have just said that in the last lines of my post . Please read again . Ilan saye that there was one known Berenicianus and he must have been Berenici's son, otherwise there is no expelation for his name . We have Ben Matityahu's words and the inscription about a Berenicianus son of Alexander . That's it . Ilan conjectured that they are the same because the "son of Alexander" is the only evidence for him to be from the Armenian branch and not from the Judaean one . Besides, Berenice married an Alexander . Can we not question the Judaean origin of cos. suff. 116 ? or maybe he was of Norwegian origin ?

Well, a surprise ! "In Jewish onomastics and literature, the name Berenicianus is indeed rare. As stated above, it is present only in the name of queen Berenice's son, and it is on this rarity that I have based our identification...the masculine name Berenicianus is withour doubt derived from the faminine Berenice...the male name Berenicianus was unheard of until the outspoken Herodian queen decided to name her son after herself . it was most common in the Hellenistic and Roman world and was becoming increasingly popular with the Jews to name women with the feminine version of the male name . Queen Berenice decided to reverse the practice. This Berenicianus may, therfore, be the first in the world...One Berenicianus, apparently mentioned in two inscriptions, one dated and one undated, may be of special interest. A Gaius Julius Alexander Berenicianus is mentioned in an inscription from Ephesus (no. 5 in n. 57), which was copied in the fifteenth century by Cyrique of Anacona and has not been seen since. This Berenicianus could be identified with another man who had served as proconsul of the province of Asia in the year 132-133 (ie - the cos. suff. 116), mentioned in an inscription from Laodicea (no. 6 in n. 57), where he is designated as Berenicianus, son of Alexander" (Julia Crispina, Daughter of Berenicianus, a Herodian Princess in the Babatha Archive: A Case Study in Historical Identification, Author Tal Ilan . Published by: University of Pennsylvania Press) Now, this Berenice (the wife of Herod of Chalcis) was a Jew by all criteria and without doubt . More than that - Berenicianus daugther was Iulia Crispina - a Jew ! This is the stemma of Ilan - Herod the Great (a Jew) and Mariamme the Hasmonean (a Jew) has a son, aristobulus (a Jew), he had a son, Agrippa I (a Jew), and he had a daugther, Berenice (a Jew), she married Herod of Chalcis the grandson of herod the Great (a Jew) and they had a Berenicianus . Tal calls this line as the Judaean/Chalcian Branch . Tal admit that there is a confusion about the men - a Jew or, as stated above, a descendant of Herod the great and miriam by the Armenian-Asiam Branch . According to this - Berenicianus was a Jew pure and simple or a descendant of Jews . Practicing "Judaism" is not relevant for the case . I am reffering to Genealogy, not religion . And BTW, according to the Nuremberg "laws" a Jew is Jew even if his great-grandfather was a converted Christian...

"Are there any queers in the theater tonight?" whatever...

Yes, but still around 300 until Sula's day (we have the worde of Livy regarding Buteo's censorial dictatura in 216) . Many T.P., A.C. or A.P had to wait for some old senator to die in order to enter the senate . Unless the ratio of dead senators every year was exactly 2 (A.C.) or 4 (A.C. and A.P.) or 14 (A.C. + A.P. + T.P.) .

Please tell me how a joke (good or bad) can be "utterly ridicules" ? For Judaea's sake...man

About Clemens - Because of the Romans of the 90' and on not knowing to distinguish between Jews and Christians (they thought that the Christians were just another Jewish sect) it is consider by many scholars that Dio ment that Clemens was a Christian . There is a storng Christian tradition that Clemens was Pope Clement... About Iulius Alexander - Cerrect me if I am worng but he was a Jew not by persuation but by origin, no ? About cos. suff. 116 - The Jews says - "Once a Jew, allways a Jew"

I came across a name - Caius Iulius Alexander Berenicianus cos. suff. 116 CE . The last name sounded like a descendant of the Jewish princess Berenici and I wondered about his origin . Did a little research and came up with this - Yehuda/Judah Aristobulus the Judaean Jewish king (66 to 63 BCE) had a son, Alexandros who had a daughter - Miriam/Mariamme the wife of king Hordus/Herod (a son of an Edomite who converted to Judaism) . The couple had a son, prince Alexandros "II", he had a son, Alexandros "V" (not "III") who had a son (or brother) - Tigranes V king of Armenia . The son of the Armenian king was prince Caius Iulius Alexander and he was the father of the above cos. suff. Certainty he had Other family connections (Armenian, Nabataean, Edomite, Persian, Greek and Medes) . It was 46 years after the great revolt of 70 CE . The amazing thing is that in the years 115-117 the Jews of the east (not including Judaea) were in revolt . Any connection ? There were others ?

Thanks for your advice Nep. and Mal.

יישר כח נפ Just for the record - There were 53 consulships (or T.M with consular powers) for the Aemilian gens in the republican period - 3 Mamerci with 8 consulships 5 Mamercini (the same "family") with 14 consulships 1 Privernas with two consulships 4 Paulli with 5 consulships 3 Barbulae with 4 consulships 3 Papi with 5 consulships 9 Lepidi with 12 consulships 1 Lepidus-Purcina with one consulship 1 Scaurus with one consulship And 1 Paullus-Lepidus with one consulship One example for their great dynasty - The praetor/consul for the years 484, 478 and 473 (Var.) Lucius had a son marcus, he had a son Mamercus the three times dictator of the 5th century . The son of the last one was Lucius, 6 times T.M. with consular powers at the beggining of the 4th century, he had a son, Lucius who was consul in 366 and 363 (Var.) . The last one had a son, Lucius (cos. 341 and 329 Var.) . According to RE it is possible that he had a brother named Quintus Barbula, the father of Marcus the dictator of 292/285 . It is possible that the consul 0f 255, Marcus Lepidus, was his son and in all cases, the consul of 232 was his (cos. 255) son . The last one had a son named Marcus (praetor 218 and 213) who had a son Marcus the princeps senatus, pontifex maximus cos. 187 and 175 censor 179 . This great man had a son - Quintus, who had a son - Marcus (cos. 78), who was the father of the triumvir Marcus . The triumvir married Iunia the sister of Brutus (caesar's assasin) and they had a son Quintus who was the father of Manius (cos. 11 CE) who married Vipsania Iulia . The last couple had a daugther named Aemilia Lepida the wife of the emperor Galba who died in 40 CE . She was the last of the patrician Aemilii . Some 550 years of Roman nobility .

It is. Any decent university library should have a copy. Sadly, a "common" library does not have it and my univercity days are over . A dead end...

Spoken like a true Munzerian ! It is sad to read nowdays scholars pass criticism on his methods in so a hasty manner . As usual, a full good list

Has anybody saw "Ancient Rome - The rise and fall of an empire" ? Not the BBC's 6 chapters . I have missed some episodes and wonder when they rebroadcast it

It seems a great book, did not managed to get it for more than a year now .

This is the best ! Gaius Licinius Useless Sucker, a Roman consul !

From JSTOR - Bradua Atticus, the Consul of A.D. 185, and Bradua Atticus, the Proconsul of Africa ** 27.68 (by Avotins, I.) Proconsuls of Asia under Caracalla ** 40.202 (by Barnes, T. D.) Anyone ? Thanks in advance

Damn !!!!!! On the other hand - The goddess Statistica wins again ! Yiiihhhhaaa !

Today 23.11.2008, 3 UNRV members are celebrating their 38th birthday !!! We have 1245 members, so for 1 member to be born (my English) on 23.11. the odds are - 1245/365 = 3.41 to 1 For 2 members to be born on 23.11 the odds are - 3.41/2 = 1.7 to 1 For 3 members to be born on 23.11 the odds are 3.41/3 = 1.13 to 1 Now, if the age range of UNRV members is 15 years old to, let say 75 we have the final number - 1.13/60 = 0.018 to 1 !!! Aaaaaaaaaaaacchh, forget it

Birley is a good example; aside from being presumably born in Africa, what does this author really meant by Punic origin regarding any Equite in 95 AD? This would be like two and a half centuries (ie ten whole generations) after the absolute oblteration of the Carthaginian people and civilization at the end of Punic War III. Birley talks about Punic origin, not Carthaginian . leptis survived the 3rd punic war and remined a Punic community for years to come . Most important is the fact that "The first thing to note about Lepcis during the first century was its conspicuous lack of immigrants. In marked contrast to the rest of Africa, the city did not see the official establishment of a large Italian community in its midst...That Lepcis did not have such a corporation suggests that the native aristocracy retained their importance under Roman rule" (Richard Cawley) . So, with the fact that the Septimii came from Leptis it is logic to assume, like the UNRV's biography of Severus, that among others, he had Punic blood .

Septimius Severus' African ancestry - "...the first known Septimius of Lepcis was of Punic origin, a Roman knight in the year 95 or earlier...it seems logical to indentify them (the Septimii Maceri) as the likeliest ancestors of Septimius before the family acquired a Roman style gentilicium and citizenship" . (Septimius Severus By Anthony Richard Birley) About his color - It seems that the Romans did not care...

From 23.03.396 CE (a stolen one) Marcus - "How was the Roman Empire cut in half?" Gaius - "With a pair of Caesars!"