P.Clodius

...claims to be in Caesar's own hand! Amazing find all the same....Hail Caesar

Yeap, and this was independent of Patrician/Plebian status of the politician/patron.

Well that's because a plebian politician could have clients too. I think you're getting confused slightly. Patricians were not the ONLY politicians, plebians were also. The patrician pool got smaller over time till we arrive at the late republic and it consists of an extremely small and select group of people, some of which weren't all that powerful. A certain individual will probably respond to your post and say the system of clients didn't exist at all, but that's just blatant revisionism.

Interesting point MPC..Were the Cicero's considered none Romans at some point? If so when did they cease to be none citizens and under what circumstances? Were they descendants of settled soldiers or merchants or were they true bred?

You know him personally? Thats pretty impressive, how do you know him? Sorry I haven't answered before: very rude of me! Just luck really!! I was at Cardiff University when he was a Research Fellow and I attended the seminars given by Adrian and Louis Rawlings on the 'Republican Army of Polybius'. After that we've kept in touch. Well let me tell you, AG would be a most welcome addition to our humble abode, so get cracking...!

So far it's been great, I haven't had any problems. The setup took all my settings from my existing install (in about:config), and kept them for Minefield (the codename for FFx 3.0) and its been flawless so far. It even knew I had the developer extensions and kept those too. It appears to integrate (somewhat) your bookmarks with your history. I've been using FFx since 1.0 and I have no complaints about this one yet.

I didn't put a halo there..It must be divine providence that put it there! The "S", errr...Superbus Homus?

Yeah

It's due to be released in June but is available for testing and eval. Looks pretty neat Firefox

How'd ya like this?

Why not have a design competition? I know G-Manicus knows his way around PS as I'm sure others do. HERE'S one I did, though this probably wouldn't look all that good on a tshirt, you get an idea what I'm talking about. Perhaps a simple UNRV logo...?

He did this not out of necessity but choice. So what other citizen cavalry could he have chosen? Well none apparently. According to Goldsworthy, The legion of the late Republic and early Empire replaced the maniple (120-160 men) with the cohort (of 480 men) as the most important subdivision of the unit. It also did away with the velites and probably the equites.....

Yeap, it's Cicero's de Finibus Bonorum et Malorum. Find it HERE!

Novel reconstructions? Thats speculation, not history. And in mentioning these historians you reinforce your view that the only historians worth reading are the ones that agree with your own opinions. Thats not good history. Also what you fail to observe is that Adrian Goldsworthy is a specialist - he writes about military history - and since he tends to leave out all the politics you enjoy then understandably there isn't much for you to read. The trouble with those clever and intellectual historians you so admire is that they often construct these cultural theories from first principles and forget the romans were human beings. There's nothing new about human behaviour, nor was roman politics particularly novel. I agree with you both to an extent. I am a longtime fan of AG and was pleased with his "Caesar", it was in the end, agenda free. This is important to me as I wish to form my own opinions and not be told what to think Fox News style. In general it is helpful to know the socio-political context of the authors background, from this you can somewhat gauge the 'agenda'. Two examples in MPC's list are Momssen and Syme. Momssen came from the Victorian age/pro-imperialism/white mans burden context. Syme from the first half of the twentieth century, rise of totalitarianism/fascism context. Once you understand this you can put the agenda aside (if desired) and pull from the book that which you wish. When MPC refers to "novel re-constructions" he of course means interpretation, and when boiled down, isn't a historian a professional speculator? Its when these "novel re-constructions" become revisionism, and there's a fine line, I become wary. My favorite authors are; Goldsworthy, Gelzer, Meier (surprised to see one of mine on your list MPC), Baker, Dodge, and don't we all have our favorites, authors on which we rely and tend to 'agree' with?

He did this not out of necessity but choice.

Well lets not get confused with the Servian system and the Marian reforms. The Marian legions were semi-professional, so the question still remains, who were the 120 or so men who made up the cavalry arm of each legion and how was their equipment provided?

I don't think its laughable at all. You have to admire the determination, and the practical nature of it. Modern armies do the same thing, dry run after dry run, until it becomes a drill. I remember training for FIBUA (Fighting In Built Up Areas) with houses that were little more than lines of string pegged out on the ground. FYI When the romans lost a fleet to bad weather in the 1st Punic War they replaced the 120 ships in 90 days. Carthage couldn't match this, it was too preoccupied counting the shekels. In the 2nd Punic (Hannibalic) war the romans had complete maritime superiority, due in part to the terms brought on them at the end of the 1st war. Had Hannibal assembled a navy he would probably been engaged by the romans before he even left Spain, or, at least signaled his intention to make war prior to making it.

Interesting question. Late Republic, post-Marian reforms. How did the Marian reforms effect the equites? Approximately 120 horse per Marian legion. Anyone?

Yeeeeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaa

Yes he is. A long process or series of events known collectively as The Struggle of the Orders.

But this box has since been deemed to be a forgery perpetrated by the owner!

I must admit, pondering the subject leaves me with no solution to the question of oversight. A review board perhaps? Appointed by who? The Comitia or the Senate? Would this system devolve the way of the Decemvirs? Were the concepts of dignitas and auctoritas, etc detrimental to politics?

Going from memory here but don't the Chronicles talk of seeking the help of the Angles in exchange for land, to help fight the Picts?

You could start HERE!

I am re-reading Baker’s Sulla I would like to reproduce a few paragraphs. It shines a brief light on a couple of interesting characters, whom, it is a pity more isn’t written about. Namely Quintus Mucius Scaevola and Publius Rutilius Rufus, who were part of the Sullan circle or at least mentors of said. The background is the post Gracchan domination of the courts by the Equites, and the brewing trouble in Asia fomented by misgovernment and the growing threat posed by Mithridates. “…It was round Quintus Mucius Scaevola, one of the truly great men of his time, that the first omens of the coming trouble centered themselves. Concurrently with the Italian franchise agitation, a second serious agitation was going on in Rome itself. The conviction was growing---at least among a certain group---that the equestrian courts used their judicial powers for the purpose of determining the policy of provincial governors, who were of the senatorial order. The charge can be brutally formulated in this shape, that the local governor whose policy played into the hands of the Roman bankers and merchants was secure after his term of office, while he who took a more impartial view of his duties was practically certain to be accused of some offense cognisible by the equestrian courts, and as certain to be condemned: a process which practically meant the control of provincial government in the interest of the Roman capitalists, who had no responsibility to either Senate or people. It is extremely possible that the charge was true. It affected the views of the more intelligent Optimates in several ways. The threat in the east might pass off without war---or, at any rate, without a dangerous war---if the eastern provinces could be kept contented and happy. The real danger from Mithridates lay in that Asia was rapidly becoming a hotbed of discontent which might at anytime culminate by welcoming any invader, any change of master, as a refuge from oppression of the great Roman corporations to whom Gaius Gracchus had handed over the collection of taxes. The struggle against Mithridates thus began in Rome itself. If it failed, if Asia fell into the hands of Mithridates, then there might once more be no alternative but resort to Marius. Hence a real effort was needed to recover control of the courts. But this involved important political questions. The Equites swayed the political balance in Rome. We have seen that their alliance with the oligarchy had overthrown Saturninus and Glaucia. The prosecution of such an effort as far as the necessary legislative action would mean some fresh change in the situation. The oligarchy was not anxious to invoke any such chance. To share the spoil by compromising with the moneyed interests, in return for political security, seemed to the majority the safest course. In this they were, of course, wrong. To compromise in this manner was no more than to stave off the consequences without averting them. The oligarchy was confronting one of those problems that nothing but honesty, that last bitter resort of man, can solve them. To compromise with the moneyed men might keep it in power; but then it had to fear the awful results misgovernment and oppression, for the information that came to Rome was the complaint of angry and desperate men. To the group who took up the question of the equestrian courts belonged several of the most eminent men of the day: Scaevola, Publius Rutilius Rufus, Marcus Livius Drusus, Marcus Aemilius Scaurus, who in some respects was the most influential of them all; and Sulla himself. After the year of office which saw his attempt to close the constitution on the franchise agitation, Scaevola took the bold course of accepting Asia as his proconsular province. With him went Publius Rutilius Rufus. With the support of Scaevola, Rutilius took a strong line against the agents of the financial corporations. Abuses were rigorously repressed; justice was done with severest impartiality. Instead of men privately in league with oppressors, the Asiatics found above them men who could be relied on to carry out the law without fear or favour. If Scaevola could have been followed by a succession of governors as wise and courageous as himself, Asia might have been rescued from the trough into which it was slipping. His year over, he and Rutilius returned to fight their battle on the real field of war---the judicial courts of Rome.” Thoughts? PS. Interestingly Baker refers to Scaevola as "..the founder of scientific jurisprudence."