P.Clodius

These years were critical and were the best documented of any other period. And I might add by far the most interesting years (along with the 2nd Punic War) of roman history for me. The last 80 years of the republic highlighted most of what was wrong and why it failed. The Augustan/Tiberian period are also interesting. Augustus' consolidation of power, his dilemas, and political coups are what politicians should admire and aspire to. Tiberius in a roundabout way tried to give an element of power back to the senate who ultimately showed they were incabable/reluctant to accept it.

They did indeed meet at Servillia's place. Don't worry about picking Rome apart man, it was by far the best drama EVER shown on TV about ancient Rome since I.Claudius. Just hope there's a season 2!

Now it appears to be open again! When you get to the doc, save it locally to your machine.

No it doesn't, its a pdf doc. I can get to it without a pwd. edit. Holy smoke you're right. It was wide open yesterday, I have it on my desktop. hehehe, someone is having security issues!!!

hehehe, I love the word "Damnatio"!

I seem to remember something about Germanicus losing a bunch of ships/troops during a storm, but I think this occured on the Rhine/tributaries of.

Agreed. Another maybe to stop/deter Frisian (north german/danish) raiding parties from raiding the gallic coastline. Thats a theory I came across only once and have forgot which book it was. But the theory does appeal to me and is a sound strategic move. But then you have to balance that off with dealing with the pain in the a** britannics...!

Grant rules! And yes, Cleo is intrinsically part of roman history, probably more so than any other foreigner other than Hannibal.

You'll find it in that Cicero book when you get it.

This looks indepth and interesting. http://socserv2.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll...ey/RomanImp.pdf File|Save Page As

Racism? That's a modern term to describe extreme "tribalism". Tribalism is ingrained in all of us. To ascribe racism to the romans is rediculous IMO. They were traditionally an inclusive society. Now I know points have been made arguing the reluctance to include the allies, etc... What does this have to do with racism? The arguments about the allies were mostly socio-economic/political/law (Foedus Cassianum) related. Where in Livy or Polybius does it say "Lets kill the Carthaginians because they're a bunch of coons."? Balbus was reputedly of carthaginian descent and served as consul, many gauls and germans were included in the senate, many people from many nations saw service in the auxiliaries and were treated equitably and equally. Gimme a break, the romans were about as institutionally racist as a 6 month old baby!

my bad, good catch

Cato, you're too quick to dismiss This is from barcanet

Would it be possible to resurrect some more for a giggle?

I wonder if it talks of child sacrifice.

Less of a pool for the senate to corrupt a la Livius (I think he was called). The tribune (senate stooly)who vetoed the land bill of T.Gracchus prompting him to propose the vote on Livius' tribunship since he was clearly not a partisan of the people. Edit. The guy's name was Marcus Octavius

It was perfect as it was except sacrosanctity should have been lifetime, and there was to many, I think 10 per tribunician year from the Gracchi to Sulla's reforms, and subsequently post rollback. There were originally 2.

PM me

How about making the senate answerable to other than themselves? Corruption eminates top down and clearly the festering sore of senate self regulation contributed more to extremism than anything other single thing. Res Publica, Public thing. The Concillia were the goverment of Rome, the senate was left over from the time of the kings and was jealously guarded by the "priveleged" for personal enrichment. Abuse of the office of tribune was symptomatic of the political impass/es derived from the conflict of the orders.

I wonder if this guy was related to the staunch caesarian, Caesar's man in Rome while he was in Gaul, advisor to the young Octavian during inter-caesarian clashes 43BC, first foreign born consul.

Voting blocks

Cannae is certainly a significant event but keep in mind rome was split between its traditional method of fighting war, i.e. the pitbull method and the new Fabian method. It was the concilium plebis that set Cannae in motion. Only after Cannae did the romans strike the balance between Fabian and pitbull. Certainly many of the future millitary leaders were at Cannae and learned great tactical lessons, but strategically? I don't think so. Hannibal's flaw was that he failed to appreciate the romans socially, politically and economically. Tactically he knew the romans and used their strength against them but had he fully appreciated the other factors he's have known his venture was doomed to fail. The strategic moves undertaken during the 2nd punic war, other than the initial move by Hannibal, were all conducted by the romans in Spain, Greece, Ilyria, Sicily, and North Africa. It could have been a different story had Hasdrubal not dalied in southern Gaul throughout the winter of 208 when Marcellus had been taken care of but he did. Even if he had not perished on the Metaurus and met up with H in southern Italy I believe roman victory would have been the ultimate outcome, it would have taken longer and been more desparate, but without a seaport H was in trouble. Nova Carthago certainly has its merits too. It must have been a fantastic shock for the Carthaginians to learn they'd lost their spanish capital, their main arsenal, and their main port in one swoop.

It often amuses me when people talk of the US and democracy. First off, the United States is NOT a democracy end of story. It is a representative republic. So all those people out there that like to dump on the US, faulting it for its flaws etc get your facts right. With respect to the electoral college, does anyone see the tribal assembly or is it just me?

I'm leaving Zama off for obvious reasons. I voted for Metaurus, it being the potential make or break battle for the Romans. And for the gutsy move by G. Claudius Nero, hoodwinking the master hoodwinker, marching 200+miles in 7 days, breaking the law by entering another consuls delegated area or responsiblity, then having to work closely with someone whom he hated, and hated him for a common purpose. Then returning to "announce" the news to Hannibal about his reinforcements and his brothers fate. Now that's awesome movie material!!

? Did someone forget to take their medicine today?