P.Clodius

I was praying for Oz today but alas they got screwed..Dominated possession but never really created chances. Good job Soccerooz, see you in 4 years!

Yeah Ursus he rocks. Get his Cicero, its both informative and funny.

Everitt's Augustus, due out in October

"Quiting smoking is easy, I do it all the time!" Mark Twain

Goodluck Scander, don't be a stranger. And remember, the majority of orders tend to be idiotic in retrospect!

Cato, I guess I was refering to elections more than anything. I'm standing, I want your backing, in exchange for your backing I will make sure certain Publicani, (Who're your clientella) will get the contracts for Macedonia. After that, business as usual. I completely see your point about fundementals though.

Yes that's a good way of putting it. Roman politics was no more than a series of temporary alliances, you champion your cause, then disolve the alliance. Of course the period we're talking of was much more polarized, but it makes you think about the Caesarian element and its involvement in the conspiracy on the Ides. Old ways die hard perhaps?

I think if you had to distill the reason for Rome's greatness down to one thing beyond the strength of legions, the spirit of the Republic's citizens, law, etc, then I agree with Ursus. To put it another way magnanimity in victory was Rome's greatest strength. Agreed. It was its inclusiveness not its exclusiveness that gave people a sense of belonging. People from Scotland to Armenia could claim to be Roman if they wished to.

What do you think the founding fathers would make of all this?

The period you're talking of here is the buildup to Mutina. Gaul was the Caesarian base. The incoming Consuls were Aulus Hirtius and Gaius Pansa, both of home were moderate Caesarians whose overall outlook was one of compromise and reconciliation. In command of the Gallic legions was M. Lepidus, a man who would go with whatever suited his needs but again, he was a moderate. The Spanish legions were commanded by Assinius Polio, an Antonian. Antony needed to secure his military base because, despite some of his actions he was no idiot, he knew there was an impending showdown between the Caesarians and the Optimates and he desired to secure his cause to those of the Gallic and Spanish legions. For a good overview of this period read G.P.Baker's Augustus, from an Optimate perspective read Everitt's Cicero.

I just got the book so I cannot comment yet. I have read Gelzer's effort though and enjoyed it thoroughly. However, his book ONLY talks about Caesar's political life, not military. I would imagine that Goldsworthy encompasses the military because he's a military historian. The BEST book I've yet to find on Caesar's military campaign's is T.A. Dodge's work. He gives an extremely detailed account of the traditionally obscure in detail battles of Dyracium, Gergovia, Thapsus, etc. Heartily recommended.

It appears the romans had an established trade with India.

Nope, no legions 'turned' on Caesar. The two examples provided by PP are correct. The Legio III would have gone with Anthony by agreement between Anthony and Octavian, therefore fighting against Octavian would not have been wrong from their perspective. Legio X did 'rebel', or to give it a modern word, went on strike. Individual legions were not like military formations we think of in the modern era, they were more like mini, individual corporations. Because the civil war was dragging out (many of the soldiers had served 20+ years), and Caesar expected them to head to Africa with him. They 'rebeled' and demanded the presense of Caesar himself. After ranting and raving before Caesar, he addressed them as Quirites, (Citizens) meaning he no longer considered them soldiers, instead of comrades or fellow soldiers as was his usual fashion. This caught them off guard and they quickly folded and begged to be included in his African campaign.

Both Cicero (Catiline) and M. Anthony (first address to the senate after the ides) wore them. I wouldn't consider it strange for Augustus to do so.

Its been a while since I read The Roman Revolution, but what I do remember from it is Syme lambasting Augustus for 600 + pages, then praising him on the last 3 pages! I was unimpressed with Syme's withering attack on the greatest politician the world has ever seen..!

HAHAHAHAHA, I miss The Sun. Page 3 still there?

You know better than to make a statement like that. Cato was the front man for about 20 diehard senators. And his power was not in the vote but in the filabuster. Cato's ability to filibuster posed no threat to the Republic. Quite the opposite, the right to filibuster even today remains a bedrock protection for minority viewpoints. "You shall not get it EVEN if you ALL want it!" Sure the filabuster is a useful tool if it used properly but is it really helpful to filabuster an issue pressed by massive social forces?

Here's the BBC report of the same.

Syme puts it rather well: Roman revolution p.48 Furius, Syme was partisan imo. He hated the principate and therefore Caesar. Milo had the protection of the Boni, Caesar did not. He would have been a dead man.

Just ordered it from amazon uk...Yeeeeeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. More ammo...!!!

I'd love to but can't get it till god knows when..What's the point of releasing it in the UK but not in the US...Do we not speak the same language?

No, Caesar was a master of public debate and would always present himself as amicable but wronged. Right, Cato was the figurehead/mouthpiece of an elite who were themselves jockying for power and position. No, Caesar exihibited the will/desire to compromise right upto the end. His complete submission to the will of the Cato faction would have been a death sentence. Right, the Sullan/Marian debacle was still fresh in the minds of many..What they failed to recognize was Caesar was no Sulla and were willing to lead the world to destruction because of their blinkered policy of no compromise. Sry for the messed up quotes [edit by P-P... fixed the quotes ]

Read my sig

You know better than to make a statement like that. Cato was the front man for about 20 diehard senators. And his power was not in the vote but in the filabuster.

"Huh! What? I don't get it! These people are out of their minds.." What went through Hannibal's head after his envoys returned from Rome and reported they'd been given the finger after Cannae.