The Augusta

I have never subscribed to the theory that Caesar was a champion of the People, but for the sake of the argument, before we reach such a far-reaching conclusion, shouldn't we know the numbers involved in the other groups? You hinted that they were comparatively small, but presumably the entire list compiled by S-B is based on men who expressed an allegiance or neutrality. Were there men who were not canvassed at all? For instance, if we are talking about - say - 300 senators and only half of them have taken part in the 'study', how can we reach the definite conclusion that more nobles supported Caesar? I am not trying to be awkward here, Cato - but I just think the group of 95 is perhaps too small to go on. Nor is 55-40 a resounding majority - although I grant, on the face of the evidence provided, it is a definite one. As for the populares ticket, we all know that the nobiles did not shy from playing that card if they thought it would suit their own purposes. Also - the abbreviation next to Cn. (Cornelius) Lentulus Vatia in the Caesarian list is 'cf. 209'. I'm at a loss to unravel what this means. Any suggestions, anyone?

Thanks for the list, Cato - this is enlightening stuff. However, I presume we are just dealing with the tip of the iceberg here? There were clearly more than 95 nobiles. Does the Shackleton-Bailey study give any indication of what percentage of men this list of 95 represents?

If you can bear the slow nature of the site, Doc, Perseus has some Plautus - but not all in translation. The Link is here But if it is parallel translations you are after, I think it has to be Loeb. I'll keep digging for you - see if I can find anything else. Can anyone else help out?

Welcome to the Forum, Fedor. We look forward to hearing your opinions. Please don't be shy - let's hear your views. There are hundreds of interesting topics to comment on. If there is nothing to catch your fancy in the current batch, have a scroll through the older threads. I am sure you will find something to your taste.

Pan has beaten me to it, Doc. I was going to suggest a visit to Lacus Curtius to see just what is online from the Loeb translations. If you find what you are looking for there, the book may still be available to buy in parallel translation. I bought my Loebs through Cambridge here in the UK, but I believe it is Harvard(?) in the US. Be warned though - they tend to be a little expensive as they are in hardback. Not so bad for one volume, but if an author's work runs to several volumes, you are looking at a sizeable outlay. Pliny the Elder's Natural History, for instance, is prohibitive in the Loebs - even though such a collection would grace any bookcase.

Thanks for these informative replies. But can I now set you another challenge? We know that the worship of the sun god in various guises is extremely ancient. Do we have any evidence that the pre-Roman Italians (Etruscans excepted) worshipped a sun god? I did a quick internet search but as Wikipedia is somewhat unreliable, I would defer to the greater wisdom of our members. For instance, in the southern areas such as Bruttium, do we know anything at all of a pre-Roman - even Pre-Greek - religion?

Caldrail will have to get up very early in the morning to outwit the Augusta when she has a victim in her sights. Her four Nubians apprehend the carriage as it is wending its way down a leafy track towards safetly. Then she returns to the room having sent the elderly matron on her way - Doc will ask no questions, and Caldrail has learned his lesson - and sees that her husband has arrived. And this - after she left him at home in the hands of his physicians who were administering the sand and reed treatment for his rheumatic hip! As much as she loves him, she is most put out that he is here to attempt to spoil her fun, so she retires into an alcove with NN to think of a cunning plan - and quickly!

Ok - as I will not be outdone by the scanner - I will post another pic. This does not actually equate with the summer of love, guys - this was taken in about 1961 when I was three/four. I am in my Gran's back garden with my favourite toy, Lucy Lamb! And very grumpy I look! Lucy was pink, and my dress was brown and orange. Thank god I grew up!

Whilst I agree that the Roman Pantheon was adapted from Greek models - can anyone explain just why Apollo remained the same in both cultures? Of course, I know he had various Greek names, but is he alone in being the one god who was taken over by the Romans in his original guise? And if so - why? This has always interested me about Apollo. Perhaps one of our experts can enlighten us? How was he brought to Italy? Did the Etruscans, for instance, have their own version of the sun god? Does the retaining of his Greek name indicate that he was perhaps brought to Italy by the Greeks? Did his cult begin down in Campania? Any help would be gratefully appreciated, guys and gals.

Alas, it is a sign of the times, Decimus. There is little respect for our heritage, nor do teachers in schools reinforce it. I could write for hours on this subject, but will spare you all. Instead, I will just say how totally disenchanted I am with today's world (if I sound old, I don't care). But I do think that disrespect for our heritage is just another symptom of the general malaise of today's culture. Here in the North West we now find it worthy of comment if a youngster is interested in history or art, or is a caring person with a social conscience - whereas years ago it was worthy of comment if one found a little tearaway defacing a monument. In my neck of the woods, years ago one in ten youngsters worked hard to get to University - nowadays one in five have an ASBO (antisocial behaviour order - for our American cousins).

Put up one of your own, DoL! Where's the promised pic from The Augusta? -- Nephele The Augusta is having great trouble getting her old scanner to work with this particular PC! I've been working on it all afternoon, to no avail. Don't worry - I will conquer this....

Indeed a storyline that was planned for the long-running soap, Coronation Street, was also rewritten at the 11th hour due to the Maddie kidnapping. So it affects all channels, not just the BBC. Nephele - I am sure they will screen the episode in question in a couple of weeks or so when the story of Maddie is less sensitive.

Thanks for this very helpful link, Nephele. I never knew it existed. I have used Lacus Curtius a lot in the recent past, but this link had eluded me.

Ah - adorable! Just wait till Nephele sees this, Rainchilde! You have your Mum's legs, Neil I shall get to work on my scanning....

Wow! Now this sits well with my often split personality. On the one hand I can float about in a cornfield in a very diaphanous frock, sniffing a buttercup and quoting Shelley - that's the Kloe bit. But my other self, of course, is a mysterious, sultry sort of thing in a clingy purple velvet robe which trails across the stone floor in the moonlight - the Isis and Soulgate bits. I would have been the one in the tent at a rock festival, reading Tarot cards for everyone. Hmm 1967 - I was only 9 years old, and a bridesmaid at my eldest sister's wedding. I may even scan in a pic in the gallery to give you all a laugh!

Maybe the soldiers were not truly Romans, but Germanic mercenaries hired to fill in the army? Or was this practice done later in the Empire? I don't know, the legionaries are depicted in full legionary uniform - lorica segmentata etc. Did mercenaries wear that kind of armour and helmets? Perhaps not mercenaries, Gladius - but what of provincials who were given citizenship and enrolled in the legions? I was thinking more along those lines. But we're all guessing, of course.

Another suggestion - although it's rather long-winded - is to write to the individual sites, or tourist boards responsible, to see what literature they produce. Guide books bought at the famous sites often include rough translations of the more important inscriptions at least. Might be worth a shot. Otherwise, like Bryaxis, I am at a loss to suggest much, Ioannes - sorry.

Maybe the soldiers were not truly Romans, but Germanic mercenaries hired to fill in the army? Or was this practice done later in the Empire? Indeed, perhaps they are bearded precisely to show that provincials from all over the empire served in the Roman legions at that time? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hadrian start the real 'fashion' for beards among Romans?

OK, Nephele - I'm getting very jealous now! You gave me a nice Roman name when I first came here 'Augustalia' based on my user name. But as that sounds more like a festival than a woman's name, I have always longed for another. To test your skills to the full, I will give you another scramble, but this time I will add the middle name that should have appeared on my birth certificate, except that my Dad forgot to give it to the Registrar! See if you can attach me to a family of repute with this: (You can even make me a barbarian, if you like!) aliguolseikostse Come on Nephele - I know you can do it.

Augustus - I have heard Newcastle Brown referred to in Manchester as 'Nookie Brown' - of course, we wouldn't dare say it in front of Geordies! I know Nephele won't mind me saying that an American cousin, unused to proper beer as they are (a bit like Londoners), would be well and truly 'nuked' after just two pints!

Have a great day, Augustus. Tell Flavia to bake you a dozen muffins

This is something along the lines of what I was thinking, Nephele. The statue must have been in a private collection and only 'published' in recent times. It's so impressive, however, that I'm sure we would have something on it somewhere. It could still be in private hands, of course - as you say Bettmann just photographed it. Or is it a modern copy? Whatever its provenance - it's very lovely. Let's keep digging.

As this does not have to be purely Roman: Fire from Heaven - Mary Renault. The story of Alexander's formative years - beautifully written and imagined. I've read it at least a dozen times and it certainly stoked my own interest in Alexander, whom I wasn't much interested in until I read this novel. If anyone wants an example of how a historical novelist takes a reader into a world rather than just leaving him to watch a history pageant pass by, Renault's work is not to be missed. Her work only makes me regret that she did not write about Rome. One that may surprise you all: John Prebble's trilogy: The Highland Clearances, Culloden and Glencoe - a fascinating, accessible insight into a turbulent period of Scottish history. Take any one of these books on a holiday trip to Scotland and read them against the magnificent backdrop of some of the most beautiful scenery in the world. You may never be the same again. Siren Land by Norman Douglas. Many of you may not know this either. An evocatively written travelogue in which the author guides us through the Classical world of the Mediterranean, revisiting the places of the myths and legends and enjoying convivial company and good food and wine. It is a book to whet ones appetite for the Classical world. When I read it, I can remember thinking that it was a book Maecenas would have commissioned!

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