The Augusta

Despite repeated attempts to teach them to do so, non-human primates have never been shown to spontaneously invent rules for grammatically marking number and aspect, or to engage in ternary relational reasoning with perceptual distractors, which are tasks that young human children can learn almost effortlessly and often with no (effective) direct instruction. Thank you for that explanation, MPC. I have now officially labeled myself a non-human primate!

OK, listen up all! I have just this minute tried yet another hotel in Jesmond to be told the usual 'It's the Great North Run weekend. On having a bit of a chat with this latest landlady, she said to me that there are 35,000 beds in Newcastle and 42,000 runners! We had a bit of a chuckle, but it's looking dire. The lady suggested trying further out. I know that John has suggested Hexham. Any thoughts?

Yes, amore mio - I was just about to post one of my little 'worry' bulletins again. Take care of yourself, and don't worry - we'll all look after our Cato in your absence. And Ram - Nice signature pic.

AC - it's not looking great. I have e-mailed 7, 5 have replied that they are full. I have phoned three more who are full. Still awaiting two e-mails from two places in Jesmond, but if they don't get back to me in 48 hours, I'll have to try even more. Has anyone else managed to get fixed up at all?

I'm actually highly tempted to try our Flavia's books - whether they are for children or not! OK - I bought the first Simon Scarrow book last week 'Under the Eagle'. These books had been recommended to me by friends, and this particular novel had received a wonderful review from our very own Vigs. Sorry, Vigs - sorry, everyone. I have given up after page 14. Although this is Scarrow's first novel - and therefore naturally has the 'first novel' feel about it, the writing was so dry that I could not continue. I quite like the prologue, with the twist at the end where the 'general' who was directing events turned out to be none other than Julius himself, but the incorrect rendering of 'Caius' rather than 'Gaius' should have warned me..... However, I did go on into Chapter One but found that I could have been anywhere! When I read a historical novel I want to be immediately transported to that world. I'm sorry, but this novel could be set anywhere. I had no feel of Romanism whatsoever and the writing bored me so much that I pulled out at page 14. Eventually, I may well return to have another try, but on my first impression, I am totally underwhelmed by this author. Robert Harris knocks spots off him. I even prefer Steven Saylor, whose 'Roman Blood' while also having a 'first novel' feel about it, with too much explanation here and there, had at least captivated me by page 14. BTW: The 'Helen of Troy' by Margaret George was a very decent read indeed. It would probably be more of a hit with female members than male, but it was certainly worth its supermarket price and I shall keep it on my shelves - I 'm afraid I won't be doing that with the Scarrow.

You and me both, my esteemed Gaul! I was Orpheus and haven't a damned clue who Mr. Rogers OR Nick Tosches are. However, our Ursus seemed to know the Rogers bit, as he made a cryptic comment. Care to enlighten the Gaulish King and I, Ursus? BTW: Thank god someone else is an Orpheus. We're such sweet souls, Vercy. And we're in such good company: Shakespeare, Hemingway, Melville.

33% Extroversion, 80% Intuition, 72% Emotiveness, 57% Perceptiveness I'm Orpheus - but as usual on these things - I can't get the image link to work! Whatever - it's probably quite an accurate description of me. You are an artist, an aesthete, a sensitive, and someone who has never really let go of that childlike innocence. To you, all of life has a sense of wonder in it, and the story of Orpheus was written about someone just like you. When the Argo passed the island of the Sirens, Orpheus played a song more beautiful than the Sirens to prevent the crew from becoming enticed. When his wife died, he ventured into the underworld to charm Hades but, in his naivete, he looked back becoming trapped there. You can capture your unique world view and relate it to others with the skill of a master storyteller. Your sensitivity and creativity make you a treasure to the human race, but your thin-skinned nature and innocence can cause you a lot of disenchantment and pain. What's doubly unfortunate is that, if you try to lose those traits, you never will, and everyone will be able to tell that you're putting up an artificial shell to prevent yourself from being hurt. Famous people like you: Hemingway, Shakespeare, Mr. Rogers, Melville, Nick Tosches Stay clear of: Icarus, Hermes, Atlas

Happy Birthday DF! Hope you have a great day and much consuming of the grape or hop, as the fancy takes you.

May I echo what PP has said, Skiman. You have already made your first worthwhile contribution! Let us have more - and very soon. Welcome to our community.

Oh, class - Nephele!

My mother passed on 19 years ago, and I still miss our nightly conversations. She was my one true kindred spirit, so I can appreciate your loss, Alex. She wasn't very knowledgeable about Rome as much as other eras of history, but she would avidly listen to me going on and ask me relevant and pertinent questions - from which she formed quite an 'attachment' to one, Marcus Agrippa. She was a darling, and I still miss her. The idea of the website is a very good one, I think - as is Sextus' inscription idea. I am not sure what ideas you have formed for his actual funeral service (if, in fact, it has not yet taken place), but perhaps a little reading from Virgil or Horace - or even a witty Cicero letter - if he was inclined that way. And there are, of course, many Latin quotes and inscriptions that could go on to a commemorative plaque or stone. My condolences, Alex. ETA: I like your idea of a bust. As a confirmed genealogist myself, I don;t find this in any 'wacky'. Our ancestors should be honoured - and our parents are even more beloved.

The Augusta is thrilled to see a golden Trojan at last! She takes Doc to one side and begs her to ascertain whether or not Alexander can bring more men to liven things up. After all - why should the men have all the fun watching nubile dancing girls. Men can dance provocatively too, and she's heard that the Trojans do a lovely line in pretending to be a hundred Parises coming to carry off a hundred fair Helens. "Isn't it time for your nap, Augustus," she says - and it is NOT a question. There's so much he doesn't approve of - life for the old girl can be dull on occasion.

I intend to do some phoning and/or e-mailing tonight and tomorrow on this, AC - but I just want to add a warning on the Forum to everyone attending. Caldrail via PM has informed me that The Great North Run coincides with our weekend in Newcastle! This is going to have a huge bearing on accommodation. I've just checked on the internet and the Run itself is to be held from Newcastle on Sunday, 30th September, so places for the Saturday night at least are going to be at a premium - especially the smaller places. I'll send some e-mails tonight - just a blanket one really to see what is available and where. A special thanks to Caldrail for bringing this to our attention. But as far as the booking in one hotel if poss is concerned, everyone seems to be agreeable to that. Will post and PM more as soon as I hear something.

http://taxes.about.com/od/2007taxes/qt/2007_tax_rates.htm Your average middle class American pays about 25% just for Federal income tax, add onto that the various state income taxes, Social Security taxes, Medicare taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, capital gains taxes, miscellaneous other taxes and government fees. The total estimate is roughly 40%. Thank you for that, Moon. It is as I thought. The US therefore pays more than the UK. Our average Brit pays 22% on a salary up to about

Just as a matter of interest, guys - what is the basic tax rate in the US these days? And is it a blanket rate or do you have a scale as we do, for higher earners etc? Sorry if we're off topic - Moon will no doubt split the thread if he deems it necessary.

As I now face contemplating my son's Uni education in the next two years, this thread has drawn my attention. Cato - I could not agree with you more on this. For years we in Britain moaned and groaned about our kids (or us) not being able to get a grant due to the combined salaries of our parents etc. I can remember demonstrations about the lack of funding for education and all sorts of nonsense. It used to really get up my nose, and I brought it to people's attention that American kids often had to 'pay their own way' through college and that the cost of tuition over there was ten times what it was for us. Rather like the National Health Service over here, we Brits have been spoiled rotten regarding the low cost of tertiary education. A few years ago the present government decided to do something about that. Grants were abolished and as you say, tuition fees rose. First year undergraduates whose parents could not afford to put them Uni were then offered student loans, to be paid back within a certain period after graduating. The only thing I had against this formula was that youngsters were then entering the job market with a huge debt of some

Seconded! Come on, Sonic - he only has one biography in English - and that is the Reinhold which is now some 60 years old! I think he would make a good subject. Scipio Africanus has also not been overdone, exactly. There's also Drusus and his campaigns on the Elbe and Danube. Is there a biography of Corbulo? I'm sure we can all find you subjects - it will keep you busy for many years to come And there really is one person who is screaming out for a biography - even if not 'military' in the purest sense: Lucius Aelius Sejanus. I'm sure with the right amount of research you would get a 70,000 word book out of the material available. Or would your editors consider a book on 'influential prefects of the Praetorian Guard' in which you could combine such people as Sejanus, Tigellinus etc? On the non-Roman side - wouldn't Philip II of Macedon stand to be reassessed?

Well, as you know - as someone who has been sadly 'in love' with this particular emperor for 30 years, I can say with some confidence that I am au fait with almost all extant portraits of him. Although there are always going to be a few that haven't been published until recently, this one has totally eluded me and bears so much resemblance to the Claudius version that I have my doubts as to its authenticity as an original of the period. I do realise, of course, that portraying the current monarch as Jupiter may have been a tradition that Claudius inherited from his predecessors - hence there could have been a statue of Augustus in such a guise that we have never seen before, but like others who have posted, it is just too perfect to be original. Suzhannah - no problems - I am sure it was the Claudius one you saw. I immediately thought of the Claudiius statue when Julia first posted this - although if memory serves me correctly, Claudius is semi-draped in his version and not wearing a cuirass. Will check it out.

OK folks! Only a month ago we had members in the UK salivating at the prospect of Series 2. Augustus Caesar, where the heck are your insights? It is left to me - the old grouch who swore not to watch, to write a post again. Ah well - as my dear old Hardy would have said, that is one of Life's Little Ironies! I mean the following to be light-hearted and affectionately irreverent, so don't be offended... Now, I have decided that the best way to enjoy this current series of 'Rome' is to throw off all pretence of seriousness, forget the history and just watch it as a soap opera. Take it all with a pinch of salt and the odd highlight can be uncovered. Watching with two teenagers, who seem to lap up the violence, sex and bad language, is a help rather than a hindrance, and as those said children have been brought up in a household that reveres the Divine Augustus, they are not too ignorant of the actual facts of the history. This can lead to a somewhat enjoyable Thursday evening watching the double helping (or Omnibus - let's face it, this is soap) of the week's episodes. So, to borrow from another well-known sit-com, last night we had: 'The one where Atia doesn't die' and 'The one where Cicero gets taken down a peg'. First off, a line that even had my children gaping open-mouthed in outrage: Pullo says: 'Well, there's lies and there's lies, innit?' Fellow Brits will recognise that little Chavism 'Innit'? But to put it into a Roman's mouth - when it has only been in the mouths of the said underworld of Brits for less than 5 years! We also winced a little at Gaia's 'Right you are, boss!' but perhaps a little less so. (We actually like Gaia.) At the other end of the spectrum, however, we did have Octavian's icy: 'Step away from my chair', to Cicero, which brought the living-room down! My son punched the air and yelled 'Yeesss' like any yob at a football match, and I, admittedly and ashamedly commented: 'Yeah, you tell him, sweetheart!' You see - this is what we are reduced to..... Well, at least we are engaging with the characters. If this is what HBO/BBC want, they are succeeding. Pertinax - dear Pertinax - I am actually going to disagree with you about the Big A (although not as big and butch as he should be). The stupid storyline of him and Octavia apart, I do think they are capturing the essence of his character - even though he is still far too refined for my liking. He still sticks out like a sore thumb as someone incorruptible, but I will reserve my judgment until I see how he develops when he actually swings a sword! I agree with you, though, about his being less than true to history. My Agrippa, for instance, would not have bluffed his way through telling Atia off, he would have told her to P*** off without turning a hair and she could have liked it or lumped it, as we say! Last week I was actually feeling quite sorry for our glorious Liberators and wanted more screen time for them. Now, I actually want to erect a monument! Not only have they been sidelined, but they have been given such anvil-banging dialogue that just makes we Augustans smirk to ourselves. "Antony and Octavian hate each other far more than they hate us," opines Brutus, looking like a man who has seen his last pay cheque receding with the threat of compulsory redundancies. Poor Brutus. And poor Tobias Menzies and Guy Henry- they deserve better than this. Even if you didn't know Philippi was around the corner, you would make a good guess that these two are about to come unstuck. As too, Cicero - the last bastion of the Republic, 'outmanoeuvred by a child'. "A war with Brutus will be short and bloody, and not to your advantage." Yet more anvil-sounding words, but when delivered by David Bamber he almost makes one believe that there could have been another outcome. As to the divine one himself - after casually displaying the odd centurion in the Senate and doing a fair impression of the cold, unemotional, unscrutable automaton he was, he finally realises that he has less military might than he had at first thought. Time for Atia to get busy and reconcile herself with her lover into the bargain. So, she enters Antony's camp, like Guinevere entering Camelot, resplendent in fur-lined cloak, to gain her place in history as the great mediator between Octavian and Antony. Now, if there were anyone who doubted that those two lovely Liberators had a chance to make it to the end of the series, it is now clear that their days are well and truly numbered. But it is also very clear that Octavian won't put up with Antony for long. So, who will win in the end? As entertaining dramas go, they have managed to tell a good enough story here. Any audience would get it! But what of Antony and Octavia - that one is definitely going to be a twist that they are not expecting. So far, no anvils are sounding there! The subplots continue to pall. I am glad that Vorenus has his children back, but less than happy to see the lazy way the script-writers have morphed Erastes Fulmen so seamlessly into Memmio that you can't even see the joins. "Is this bit like gangland Mafia?" asked my son. Well - more or less. Timon and Levi seem to float about like the script-writers don't really know what to do with them - I'll await that development with interest. Thankfully, Esther Hall as Lyde has threatened to take over as the actress of the series now that Lindsay Duncan's Servilia seems to be on the wane as a force. Her torture scene was vile to watch, gratuitous, and adds nothing to history. She has floated through the episodes in both series lending grace, elegance and Roman gravitas. So much has Lindsay seduced us that we even forgave her cursing of Caesar and we actually applauded her attempt to murder Atia! If only she could rule Rome - what a better place it would be. Heck - even her freedwoman is wonderful. There should have been more of Mutina. Ahem - where was Decimus Brutus, by the way? But the kids and I did actually heave a great sigh of relief when we saw Lepidus. Nice portrayal by Vibert - he always plays a slimeball very well. Best scene in the entire two episodes last night: Octavian wipes the senate floor with Cicero! Nice! Take note, viewers: future emperor on screen. In that scene, one could almost believe it. My son and daughter want the whole two series on DVD. HBO have conquered another couple of hearts. If it makes them dig even deeper into the history of the end of the Republic and the coming of the Principate, I'll be happy enough.

Please PM our Forum member Northern Neil. He not only makes such replicas himself, but will no doubt be able to put you in touch with good sources. He is away on holiday at the moment, but is due back any time.

Great review, Pan - and it so obviously came from the heart, which I have always believed has as legitimate place as any in a review. I look forward very much to picking up a copy of Andrew's book.

Never mind a muffin! The Augusta is most put out, as she gapes at the hole in the floor. "Outdone by you again, husband," she snaps, holding a silver bowl under his nose. "And it took me three hours to make this bloody concoction!" She goes off in high dudgeon, looking for Cato. Brutus Britannicus wasn't the only one with a dark side to his nature.....

Thanks for all your hard work, Augustus. I shall certainly be exploring in the next couple of days and will PM when I have secured my accommodation.

Just a mild corrective to Flavia and Caldrail, here. Alexandria was part of Egypt and therefore NOT part of the Roman province of Africa, as such. I think the Romans made this distinction. It is actually quite a little idiosyncracy of theirs. We would very much term Egypt as being part of North Africa, but to the Romans it was sort of vaguely 'the east' - at least during the Republic and early Principate. Interesting point made by Flavia about the province of Africa not seeming to be 'so far away', as this very point is something Birley explores in his biography of Severus, when his thesis is that it was the very sense of 'otherness' that shaped much of that Emperor's character. It is not a point I am sure I agree with, but I mention it only to show that there are two definite schools of thought. This should prove to be a fascinating topic.

OK, Guy - you've had the erudite replies from my esteemed colleagues here, but I will keep this very simple, and it will echo something that Cato said in his post. I love people. I love to study the men/women of history who actually sparkle as individuals - whether they be good or bad individuals is almost immaterial here. You used the word 'passionate' in your opening post and enquired why many of us were not as passionate about the Greeks as the Romans. I may be oversimplifying - and over-romanticising, but you've asked for our personal opinions - but I cannot quite equate the word 'passion' with anything Greek. Of course there are things to admire about their culture, but I find the shilly-shallying about of 5th century Athens quite irritating. There is only the odd colourful character - such as Alcibiades, and it would appear that anyone even attempting to show character or individualism in the Greek world was treated with disdain rather than lauded as a hero. Of course, I am not talking about the legendary heroes here - but even there: that sulky idiot Achilles, content to simmer in his tent due to hurt pride while his men died around him. Could you honestly imagine Scipio doing that? The Greeks were thinkers and philosophers; the Romans were pragmatists and men of action. I know which I'd rather have. Rather like yourself, the Greeks only come alive for me with the 4th century and the rise of Macedon. But think of the wealth of Roman characters we have, regardless of our personal likes and dislikes (and I'll bet even Cato will agree with me here); from Scipio, Sulla, Cicero to Caesar, Augustus, Hadrian. These men not only stood out against the canvas of history but painted great swathes of it themselves with a very vivid brush! Rome - even in the Republic - always had time to applaud an individual. The Greeks, for much of their history, are grey in comparison. But I daresay there'll be many who disagree.