Nephele

We had a discussion on The Tudors going awhile back here. I don't know how much of a spoiler this might be. If you don't know much about Thomas More, then skip this. I'd always quite liked More's book Utopia, even though I found his religious convictions abhorrent. One thing I did like about The Tudors is the way they depicted More -- which was not entirely as the admirable character that Man for All Seasons would have us believe him to have been. Despite the fact that we see More in The Tudors admirably serving as a high-principled advisor to Henry, we also see that More as the religious zealot had very little compunction about burning "heretics" alive at the stake. -- Nephele

GhostOfClayton, you have a very short Roman name: Macrobeius = somcerabuk -k +i Your name is a variation of Macrobius, a name used by a 4th-5th century C.E. grammarian and philosopher. Although your Roman name is short, Macrobeius (or Macrobius) means: "living long". Welcome to UNRV! -- Nephele

I use Internet Explorer both at home and at work, but I don't seem to be having this problem on the work computer. I just checked now on my work computer, and the site remembered me when I got off and came back. -- Nephele

If someone needs a hand doing the db part I could do it, from a tech perspective that is.... I have Broughton's and can compile information from these volumes, but I'm unfamiliar with the use of spreadsheets. Hey, I see from your profile, P.Clodius, that you're in NYC? We're neighbors! -- Nephele

Salve, Praebitorae. For more information on Roman rule in Judaea, you may want to read this book (if you haven't already) that a few of us here have read and been recommending: classicist Michael Grant's The Jews in the Roman World. One Amazon reviewer wrote: -- Nephele

My absolute favorite Brit sitcom, that I can watch over and over and it still absolutely creases me: "Steptoe & Son". -- Nephele

Ah, I see. I guess I got a little confused where I read you'd written: "To get back to 27 BC delete..." You're very thorough! A question to all interested in these statistics: What other magistracies would you say might also be included for these purposes? Praetor? Aedile? Tribune of the Plebs? Quaestor? Censor? These are some of the magistracies included on Broughton's annual lists, along with Consul. For some years, even Vestal Virgins are included as Roman magistracies. -- Nephele

Hi, Moonlapse. I just now followed all your instructions in that old posting of yours -- logged off, deleted UNRV cookies, then went into "My Computer" and deleted all cookies there. Then came back, logged in, clicked "Remember Me". Still having the same problem. I'm not being remembered. -- Nephele

I don't know if this is at all related to the current problems, but as of yesterday I find myself having to log-in every time I visit this site. The "remember me" feature doesn't appear to be working for me. I'm being forgotten! *sniffle* -- Nephele

Great--this is a valuable piece of information. Nephele has posted the number of magistrates per family (thus, G. Marius would count only once under Maria); this lists the number of consular magistracies per family (thus, G. Marius would count six times under Maria). Once we get the number of consular magistrates per family, we can begin the statistics again. Something else occurred to me, regarding this additional list. To bring Ullfig's list within the original limits of 509 BCE - 31 BCE, I see we'd have to eliminate eight consulships from his list (from 30 BCE to 27 BCE). Pompeius, do you know whether the Emperor Augustus was included in the Julia gens for the purpose of Ullfig's list? In which case, Julius would be reduced by 4, Licinius by 1, Appuleius by 1, and Vipsanius by 2. EDIT: Whoops. I see by your note in your last posting that you'd already thought of reducing the stats, Pompeius. But not back to 31 BCE? -- Nephele

Great list! I couldn't get that link to work, but I found Ullfig's list at this link (which includes those gentes that appear only once). -- Nephele

Ah, thanks for that reasoning for setting the limits of this survey, MPC. I merely chose 31 BCE as the ending date because this is where my volume of Broughton's ends in its setting of that date as the end of the Republic. However, for a comparison between patricians and plebians in positions of highest power, should we also consider the possibility of 445 BCE as a starting date, with the Lex Canuleia granting consular powers to the military tribunes? I'm finding members of the Sextilia, Antistia, and Trebonia plebian gentes, to name a few, as having held these consular powers. -- Nephele

Birthday hails to you, Lady Silentium! -- Nephele

What a great idea! A Roman theme TV Guide for those of us here in the States! Do we have any volunteers in the UK to do something similar? -- Nephele

This looks like an interesting list, Pompeius, although I'm having a little trouble interpreting it. Would you be inclined to re-do your list to include only the years of the Republic (509 BCE - 31 BCE)? This would significantly change a few of the gentes represented on your list, reducing Vipsanius, for example, from three consulships down to only one. -- Nephele

I couldn't tell from reading the article, but does anyone know whether this was a case of "finders keepers" -- or did the Swedish gardener have to turn over the treasure to some authority? If he got to keep it all, then that's some jackpot. -- Nephele

You're welcome, Psychee. One of our members here at UNRV, who goes by the screen name of Flavia Gemina, also puts the situation in context in one of her novels (part of a series of mysteries set in ancient Rome and written for children, but enjoyable reading for adults, as well). In The Slave Girl from Jerusalem, a main character who also happens to be the slave (and friend) of another main character has the misfortune to witness a murder. The characters are horrified when informed that the friend is in very real danger of being tortured as part of the legal proceedings. This scene is doubly horrific when one realizes that the slave in danger of being tortured is just a child. Btw, welcome to UNRV, Psychee! -- Nephele

RomanItaly, since I didn't hear back from you (are you still around?) regarding male or female, I'll assume you're male. You are a member of the Grania gens. Although plebian, some of your family rose to senatorial rank under the Republic. (See Smith's. Your cognomen of "Galio" suggests that your branch of the Granii won distinction from military service in Gaul. Your praenomen is "Aulus", abbreviated as "A." Your full Roman name is: A. Granius Galio = DoariAlnggaio -ao +us Welcome to UNRV! -- Nephele

Those freak babies frighten me more than the thought of Cato eating them. -- Nephele

It's my understanding that it was believed that a slave's presumed loyalty to his master would compel him to lie on his master's behalf, and only torture would ensure that the slave might give truthful testimony. Considering that not all slaves were quite that loyal to (or even overly fond of) their masters, I fail to see the logic, too, in torturing them. Pliny the Younger wrote in one of his letters ("To Macrinus" LXXV) of "a certain lady" who suspected that her son had been poisoned by his freedmen. Pliny was counsel for the defendants, and he tells of how his clients were acquitted only after the torture of the servants. In later years the Emperor Hadrian, as a humane act, issued a decree limiting the routine use of torture of slaves, so that it would only be used as a last resort. -- Nephele

That's a great book! In fact, awhile back in the Libri forum (in "Recommendations") that was my recommended reading! -- Nephele

Right now, I'm reading The Luckiest Orphans: A History of the Hebrew Orphan Asylum of New York, by Hyman Bogen. I had not previously known that Washington Post columnist, humorist, and Pulitzer Prize-winner (for political commentary) Art Buchwald was an alumnus of the HOA, and the brief background given on Art Buchwald in this book is both poignant and fascinating. And, to loosely tie this to ancient Rome... There is a section of the book which details the effect of various, newly established (19th century) orphanages on the city of New York. I quote: "Among the four unvisited Catholic orphanages, the newest was the New York Foundling Asylum, on East 68th Street, which opened in October 1869. Foundlings were one orphan group that had been neglected by other asylums; thus the new home helped fill yet another gap in the care of dependent children. Before its establishment, infanticide was a common crime in the city. Every month 100 to 150 dead babies were found in various places -- empty barrels or crates, vacant lots, or floating in the rivers. This number declined by 90 percent after the foundling home opened." I can't help but see somewhat of a parallel between infant exposure in 19th century NYC (and, no doubt, other cities as well), and the practice of infant exposure in ancient Rome. Ancient Rome obviously didn't have foundling asylums or orphanages -- at least, none that I am aware of. And, I wonder whether the proposal of such a novelty as a foundling asylum might perhaps have been viewed as a subversive attempt to undermine a father's legal right to dispose of an unwanted child? -- Nephele

Hey, almost forgot to ask... G.O., have you every read any books by Sam Levenson? Your style of story-telling reminds me a lot of his -- you're both from Brooklyn, except you grew up Italian and he grew up Jewish. I recommend you start with his book In One Era and Out the Other -- although everything he wrote was pure gold. -- Nephele

Sallust doesn't give his name however he write that he was actually his stepson (The War With Catiline, 15.2) so I think he possesed his real father's cognomen rather than that of his stepfather. Ah, this is where I find it a bit confusing. Depending on the translation one reads, it sometimes appears that the son is Catiline's, and that it was Aurelia Orestilla who would have had the stepson after marriage to Catiline. LacusCurtius gives a Loeb Classical Library translation of: "At last he was seized with a passion for Aurelia Orestilla, in whom no good man ever commended anything save her beauty; and when she hesitated to marry him because she was afraid of his stepson, then a grown man, it is generally believed that he murdered the young man in order to make an empty house for this criminal marriage." Yet Forum Romanum provides a different translator's rendering of that passage as: "...it is confidently believed that because she hesitated to marry him, from the dread of having a grown-up step-son, he cleared the house for their nuptials by putting his son to death." And also Smith's Dictionary appears to state that the son was Catiline's by his first wife, and it was Aurelia Orestilla "who objected to the presence of a grown-up step-child." Here's the passage in the original Latin (taken from the LacusCurtius site) -- anyone care to translate? Postremo captus amore Aureliae Orestillae, cuius praeter formam nihil umquam bonus laudavit, quod ea nubere illi dubitabat, timens privignum adulta aetate, pro certo creditur necato filio vacuam domum scelestis nuptiis fecisse. -- Nephele

Hahaha! Great old story! -- Nephele