Nephele

Many thanks, Ursus! MPC, thanks for posting those stories about our favorite Aemilius -- I enjoyed that! I agree. I'd sooner angle for a Pythagorean heritage than endure a fishy venereal one. -- Nephele

Thank you, MPC! Hmm, I'm not certain who the greatest representative of the Aemilii may have been, but I can tell you which of them interested me the most. That would be the two-time consul, Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus, as evidenced by the fact that I spent more time on the entry for the surname "Macedonicus" than on any other surname entry for the Aemilii. Now, I'd really be interested in hearing your choice for the greatest representative of the Aemilii. -- Nephele

The Aemilia gens (originally "Aimilia") was one of the most prominent of the gentes in producing the greatest number of magistrates for the Roman Republic. Plutarch, in his Life of Numa (VIII.9-10, Loeb Classical Library edition, translated by Bernadotte Perrin) offered this origin of the gens name: "Another proof is that one of the four sons born to king Numa was named Mamercus, after the son of Pythagoras. And from him they say that the patrician family of the Aemilii took its name, Aemilius being the endearing name which the king gave him for the grace and winsomeness of his speech." As I did with my Surnames of the Cornelii, Surnames of the Claudii, Surnames of the Valerii, and Surnames of the Fabii, I have attempted here to list and define the various surnames used by the Aemilii of the Republic, particularly those who served in magisterial positions during the time of the Republic as noted in Broughton's Magistrates of the Roman Republic. For the purpose of this list, I have included cognomina, adoptive cognomina, and agnomina under the collective term of "surnames." ....read the full article of the Surnames of the Aemilii

Ooo, it's a lovely species of turtle! I am so into turtles now, since I got my little guys from Chinatown. They remind me of miniature dinosaurs. Nice to know you've got turtles out there, in the wilds of Austria. -- Nephele

LJV, since you're planning to read the book, why don't you review the book for us, here at UNRV? I, for one, would be interested in reading your review. -- Nephele

I was just about to quote you from that earlier thread, and you beat me to it! -- Nephele

Yep, three years ago. Here's the link for any who care to revisit the earlier discussion. -- Nephele

Beautiful countryside! I want to go fishing, too! Or, catch wild turtles! Whee! Do you have turtles in your lakes and ponds there, as well as fish? -- Nephele

Thank you. It was an article based on an essay I did for a module on Roman Dacia. The article's title was: Intrusive Ideologies? Modern Politics and the History of Roman Dacia. Most of it has been posted somewhere in the Forum Peregrini. Feel free to have a look! Is this the one? Roman Dacia: archaeology, history and politics: describe the impact of modern politics on the way Roman Dacia has been presented in the archaeological and historical literature. I repeat -- outstanding! -- Nephele

Whoa, dude... They even have the SAME INITIALS! Check it out -- "J.C." = "Julius Caesar" or "Jesus Christ". That's gotta prove something! btw, welcome to UNRV. -- Nephele

The ribbons on the iron fence of Marble Collegiate Church, at 5th Avenue and 29th Street, Manhattan. There is a ribbon for every U.S. serviceperson who has been killed in Iraq, with a tag that displays their name, rank, and age. I've passed this fence many times, and may be doing so again tomorrow, sadly. So many represented there were just teenagers when they were killed for Bush's war. So very, heartbreakingly wrong. -- Nephele

Salve, Amici I have to agree with lady N on this one; I have met some gentle Rottweilers (and Akitas, Dobermans, Alsacians and from any other of the so-called working breeds). BTW, you can train a terrier or a pekinese to become all the agressive you want them to be. Among healthy dogs, agressiveness is mainly in the training. Obviously, for defense training you would prefer a big, strong and intelligent specimen from a working breed, not a Chihuahua or a Poodle. That's what make those dogs so dangerous. Baloney, Antiochus. And, thank you, Asclepiades. I couldn't have said it better. -- Nephele

How exciting! I'll be watching -- thanks for the headsup! -- Nephele

Demons were often identified as fallen angels, and one of the Books of Enoch (which I think was written around the second century BCE) provides a list of the names of fallen angels. Additionally, the second century BCE (or perhaps even earilier) apocryphal Book of Tobit not only speaks of demons, but also gives a delicious recipe for the exorcism of a demon-possessed bride: "When you enter the bridal chamber, you shall take live ashes of incense and lay upon them some of the heart and liver of the fish so as to make a smoke. Then the demon will smell it and flee away, and will never again return." -- Nephele

Congratulations! What was the title and subject of your essay? That's outstanding! -- Nephele

Hah! Lawn Guyland will never slip into the ocean and will be around 4-eva! We'll build our homes on stilts, if need be. So there! But yikes, DoL, I hope you don't have any respiratory problems, with the smoke and all. I guess it's not too pleasant sleeping with the bedroom window open, either. -- Nephele

Nice pic, MPC! Yes, Bonham's Bellatrix has that gothy thing going for her. I suppose, since Maty brought up the HP connection in this heritage of Roman names discussion, that it should be noted how Rowling used quite a few Latin names for her characters, such as Severus and Draco. While scanning an online list of HP characters' names, I came across this treat: Nymphadora, of Greek extraction and meaning "gift of the nymphs". -- Nephele

Yes, Harry Potter has these past few years cornered the pop culture scene. But, oddly enough, the chatter on a number of Internet baby names discussion boards seems to indicate a stronger preference for the name "Bellatrix" of late -- inspired by the name of another Potter character, "Bellatrix LeStrange". I suspect that one reason why Bellatrix may someday lead Hermione (which has not yet hit the U.S. Social Security Administration's top 1,000 most popular names ranking) is because Bellatrix lends itself better to nicknaming. A child with the given name of Bellatrix can be affectionately called "Bella" or "Trixie", whereas the obvious nickname for a poor Hermione is "Hermie". Plus, Bellatrix, besides being the Latin name of a star in the constellation of Orion, has a much cooler meaning for a bold, assertive girl of the 21st century: "female warrior". -- Nephele

What a great collection of classical names, Maty! We should praise the Victorians for having revived a number of classical names for their children, and I think a little Drusilla or a little Porcia in the library's preschool story hour group today would make a refreshing change from all the little Madisons and Briannas. As for a few of my own favorites, I like: Aethra (the mother of Theseus in Euripides' The Suppliant Women -- okay, not a Roman name, but I'm sure the Romans appreciated Euripides), Camilla (the warrior queen in Virgil's Aeneid), Cloelia (the brave young Roman girl who defied the Etruscan king), Aurelia (meaning "golden"), and Ambrosine. For boys, I like: Tully (derived from Tullius), Octavius, Urbanus, and Ambrose (from Ambrosius). But, unfortunately, any of those names might get a little boy beaten up on the playground. Girls seem to "wear" classical names so much better. There's just something about a classical name that sounds so patrician, even for modern-day children. -- Nephele

Thank you, sullafelix -- especially for that explanation as to why we probably can't draw definite conclusions as to whether this law goes back to the time of the 12 tables, due to the existing tables being so fragmentary. Perhaps also, injunction against polygamy might have been something that had been universally understood by the ancient Romans to be "wrong", and therefore the Romans of the Republic might not have seen a need to write it down in stone? Here are some more excerpts from the Code of Justinian, that I found referenced in a useful book titled Women and the Law in the Roman Empire, by Judith Evans Grubbs (Professor of Classical Studies at Sweet Briar College): 5.5.2: "It is allowed to no one who is under Roman authority to be able to have two wives openly, since even in the Praetor's Edict men of this sort have been branded with legal infamy (infamia). The appropriate judge will not allow this matter to go unpunished." 9.9.18: "Without a doubt legal infamy attends the man who had two wives at the same time, for in this matter it is not the effect of the law -- since our citizens are forbidden to contract mulitple marriages -- but the intention that is considered. Moreover, the accusation of stuprum also will be formally brought by a legally authorized accuser against the man who asked for your hand in marriage, pretending that he was unmarried, when he had left another materfamilias in the province." As to the punishment for polygamy, which had also been asked by DukeofMarshall... The above codes state that the transgressor was labeled with infamia, which would result in a loss of political and public rights. Here is a link to an article from Smith's Dictionary that describes in greater detail the consequences of legal infamy or infamia. -- Nephele

Yep, and I had included "Grace" and "Gracie" in my listing above of Latin-derived, modern-day names, which I limited to the top 100 names given to babies in the U.S., England, and Wales for the year 2007. I think you must have been looking at the U.K. statistics for the year 2003, Maty. Last year, the girl's name "Grace" had risen to the number 1 postion in the U.K. LOL! You're right -- and there are a lot of "pretty"(?)-sounding names that appeal to parents who don't pay particular attention to the actual meanings of those names. For the past eleven years here in the U.S., the name "Madison" has consistently been in the top 10 names for baby girls. This, despite the fact that the name literally means "son of Maud." We can thank the influence of pop culture and Hollywood for that name's popularity. (The movie Splash premiered in 1984, and in 1985 the name "Madison" hit the U.S.'s top 1000 names list for the first time in history. The name has been steadily rising in popularity as a girl's name since then.) But, again, you found Chelsea's rather high U.K. ranking on the 2003 list. You may be happy to know that Chelsea doesn't appear at all in either the U.K.'s or the U.S.'s top 100 names for 2007. If/when I expand my Roman Heritage Names listing to include names taken from the top 1000 rankings, you still won't find "Chelsea" on my list -- because that name is derived from Old English: cealc hy

The praenomen was never an important identifying designation for Roman males, and lost its use for Roman females very early in Roman history. More often than not, the praenomen was arbitrarily bestowed. We can surmise from this that the Romans simply didn't see any value in devising new and inventive praenomina to give to their children, as we moderns do today. Some Romans of the more noble families did make an attempt to revive old cognomina as "new" praenomina. We find the Claudii towards the end of the Republic using the cognomina Drusus and Nero as praenomina, and the Cornelii Lentuli revived the cognomen of Cossus as a praenomen. But this doesn't appear to have been a wide-spread practice. Yes, you're right in having previously pointed out the connection between the Etruscans and the Romans. The Romans were definitely influenced by Etruscan customs in their naming practices, as I mentioned in this thread regarding some Romans' adopted use of matronymics. We also find a few nomina gentilicia of Etruscan origin, identifiable by their "-na" ending (as in the gens names of Perperna and Caecina), instead of the usual "-ius" ending. -- Nephele

I quoted Dr. Benet Salway (of University College, London) in my article Roman Naming Practices During the Principate Period, who used the term "fossilized" to describe how, over time, praenomina were becoming "less individuating and less of a consciously given name." This had much to do (as you noted yourself) with the lack of a variety of praenomina in common usage, but even more to do with the fact that cognomina (especially by the end of the first century BCE) were becoming more numerous and more useful in identifying individuals. This was due to the fact that cognomina described physical features, place of origin, occupation, etc., much as do our modern-day surnames. Another reason for the cognomen overtaking the praenomen (especially by the end of the first century CE when the praenomen was by this time retained mostly as a nod to bygone tradition) was the introduction into Rome of numerous foreigners, and their eventual enfranchisement. As new citizens, they adopted the praenomina and nomina gentilicia of their patrons, but they retained their original names (often Latinized) as their cognomina, by which they were generally known. In addition, many of these new citizens were also known by a signum -- a sort of given nickname which served as an additional identifier. The nomen gentilicium was retained by citizens, of both old families and new, because it always indicated the clan to which a citizen had been born, or it indicated the patron of the new citizen. But the praenomen didn't tell much of anything, thus contributing to its uselessness. -- Nephele

That's a long subject to discuss, but the short version is that the ancient Romans started out with single names, which developed into a duo-name system of given praenomina (many of which became obsolete as time went on and the praenomen lost its importance) and inherited nomina gentilicia (to indicate clans). As the Roman population grew and became more sophisticated, requiring better differentiation among members, cognomina developed. These early cognomina were first used by the patricians, to distinguish different family branches within their clans. However, not all Romans during the time of the Republic used the tria nomina system which one reads about on so many websites as "being a mark of Roman citizenship". There were some gentes which never used any cognomina at all, providing plenty of Roman citizens, even of the senatorial class, who retained just a praenomen and nomen gentilicium. A perusal of Broughton's Magistrates of the Roman Republic offers up a number of these cognomina-free individuals of the senatorial class. -- Nephele

I'm not certain I know which common naming system in the Western world to which you're referring, Ingsoc. Are you talking about the custom of people giving their children middle names? There's evidence that the use of middle names in Western society came about only within the past few centuries and, even then, our modern-day system of first/middle/last names is not really comparable to the Roman system of the tria nomina. In the tria nomina Roman system, the "second" name (the nomen gentilicium) was inherited, and the "third" name (the cognomen) was more often than not inherited as well. Middle names today in Western society are generally given to complement first names, and the ancient Romans saw no need for that. If they did see a need for an additional descriptive name (to differentiate between those who had the same praenomen, nomen gentilicium, and cognomen), they would add on a fourth name -- an additional cognomen or agnomen. -- Nephele