Nephele

I don't believe that Asclepiades was saying that "prosopography is all speculations," and I rather tend to agree with him that one often may find more speculations than solid conclusions. I was particularly interested in that "mistake" in Smith's that Asc. says he spotted. Anyway, for those interested in seeing an illustration of the stemma from which Asc. was quoting (in Smith's), here you go: Stemma Marcellorum -- Nephele

Neph - now I'm really confused. I thought Kato was in The Pink Panther - not the Green Hornet?????? Help - liberal dose of American popular culture needed to interpret election jibes. I remember Kato from those Peter Sellers movies! But I think Clouseau's Kato (Cato?) came after the Green Hornet's Asian sidekick Kato. Between that article's misspelling of The Green Hornet Kato's name, and you reminding me of The Pink Panther, I'm now picturing our Roman Cato wildly screaming "Aaaaaahhhh!" and suddenly leaping out of nowhere in a surprise Kung Fu attack on Caesar. "Minkey"! Hahahaha! -- Nephele

In his entertaining book, Legends, Lies & Cherished Myths of World History, Richard Shenkman presents a chapter titled "The Fall of the Roman Empire." In it, he discusses the various theories presented over the years as explanations for Rome's fall. Having mentioned many of these time-honored theories for Rome's collapse (the onset of Christianity, corruption, barbarian attacks), Shenkman comes to the conclusion that none of these theories alone is correct, as there wasn't any one single cause and that it was the combination of many factors that contributed to Rome's collapse. Then he goes on to suggest that an "underestimated factor" in Rome's collapse may have been that the Romans made too many stupid mistakes. He then brings up Hadrian's Wall as an example -- specifically, the fact that the Romans built moats on both sides of the Wall, at an exorbitant cost in labor. Shenkman says that "historians have put forward a lot of fancy explanations" for the reasoning behind this -- "one being that an inside moat was a convenience for the customs officials." However, Shenkman concludes that the Romans built the inner moat simply out of stupidity, "a conclusion they themselves seem to have reached a short time later when they decided to fill in the inside moat." (Shenkman cites as reference E.L. Woodward's History of England, 1962). So... The inner moat of Hadrian's Wall -- was there a logical need for it, or was its construction an indication of foolish Roman excess? -- Nephele

Out of curiosity, I just now checked the eBay link to see if anyone actually bought this thing. Bidding ended on October 10th and not a single person bid for this item. Hmm... I wonder if we can talk the seller down in price now, seeing as how it's a buyer's market for ballistae? -- Nephele

goodfelladh, you are a member of the Decimia gens, which appears "to have been originally a Samnite family of Bovianum... who, after obtaining the Roman franchise, settled at Rome." You served Rome well as a soldier, though you didn't see many battles or travel extensively with the army. In fact, you earned your cognomen of "Stativus" (literally meaning "standing; stationary") from the fact that you were stationed at a permanent military encampment for a very long time. Your praenomen is "Marcus," customarily abbreviated as "M." Your full Roman name is: M. Decimius Stativus = etsvdhcaiawdhmtki -ahhkw +iusus Welcome to UNRV! -- Nephele

Hi, goodfelladh. In addition to whatever books forum members may suggest to you here, you'll also want to check out our Quintus Libri forum, which contains specific threads that discuss the top 5 book choices on any given Roman topic. Welcome to UNRV! -- Nephele

Psst...! That's "Kato" with a "K". Sarah Palin must be Black Beauty, the Green Hornet's car. Because she took them all for a ride. -- Nephele

You are so right, NN -- an admission of atheism in this god-fearin' U.S. nation has been, more often than not, a real problem for anyone expecting to pursue a public career. In 1987, then Vice-President George Bush (G.B. the First, under President Ronald Reagan) went on record stating: "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." The same attitude was nationally reflected some years later in 2001, when Star Jones, one of the women of the widely-viewed television morning talk show called The View, stated that she would not vote for an atheist for President, her reason being that a godless person would have fewer compunctions than a theist should it come down to one's "finger on the button" (a euphemism for starting nuclear war). As I said, admission of atheism in the American public sphere can cause problems, but there has recently been one very notable exception. In the fall of 2006 the Secular Coalition for America offered a $1,ooo prize to anyone who could identify

Frankly, I'm in favor of government getting out of the business of charity administration and turning said charity administration over to churches, synagogues, mosques, woodland centers of Bacchic rites, whatever. Even if this does entail faith based initiatives in the form of government grants to get the ball rolling. Obama is right: "Change comes not from the top down but from the bottom up." Welfare should be coming from the bottom -- from the neighborhoods, local religious centers, etc. -- and not from the top, i.e. the government. Unfortunately, these federal grants -- which are as unconstitutional as is the government welfare system itself -- would be coming from government. But I see it as a practical start towards perhaps eventually turning welfare administration (and, ultimately, welfare responsibility) over to charities. I don't know if this might be Obama's ultimate intention, but future Presidential administrations might continue in this same direction. -- Nephele

I don't think Obama's opponents needed much excuse to mobilize against him. Same with McCain's opponents mobilizing against McCain. It's politics as usual. As for any questions regarding Obama's (and McCain's) policies, you can read about some of them in detail at the Scientists and Engineers for America website (I posted this link awhile back in this thread). I know that both candidates' positions on various other issues have been presented elsewhere, but it was their positions and policies related to science and technology in regard to the advancement of our nation and society that were of particular interest to me. And yes, NN, I do agree that the choice of Sarah "War in Iraq is God's Plan" Palin, wacky Sarah the Creationist and Palin, was most definitely a contributing nail in McCain's coffin. I'm not so much exhilarated by Obama's win, as I am relieved by many Americans' rejection of the superstitious baggage that Palin brought along with her on the McCain ticket. -- Nephele

In 216, the two aediles of the plebs were M. Aurelius Cotta and M. Claudius Marcellus (Liv. 23.30.17). In 185, the praetor named Marcus was M. Claudius Marcellus (Liv. 39.23.2). In 183, the consul was M. Claudius Marcellus (previously praetor in 188--Liv. 38.42.7, Val. Max. 6.6.3). Yes indeed . I meant, who were they with regard to the Claudii Marcelli's main line, cousins ? nephews ? In other words - Where are they in the stemma of the Claudiii Marcelli ? Wouldn't (as indicated by MPC's information) Marcus the Consul of 183 (and possibly Marcus the Praetor of 185, as well, according to my edited-in note below), be the same person whom you have already identified as "5. His brother Marcus (yes, two sons with the same name) Prae. 188"? Additionally, a note in Broughton's Magistrates states that M

Despite concerns and misgivings regarding both Obama and McCain, this has got to be one of the most exciting elections our nation has ever seen. I'm working late tonight, but I find myself obsessively logging onto the 'net every few minutes to see how the race is proceeding. Obama is currently leading with 81 electoral votes, having taken what appears to be 9 states. McCain has 39 electoral votes with what appears to be 5 states. It looks like Obama has just taken New Hampshire -- disappointing news for McCain's daughter Meghan, who had vowed to get a "Live Free or Die" tattoo if her daddy took that state. -- Nephele

Hey, congrats to your folks on their 35th! Did they remember to do the absentee ballot thing before they left for Mexico? As for the knee thing... Ouch. Doesn't sound like fun. When I get joint pains I get in the hot tub. Do they have one of those at your gym and, if so, does it help you? -- Nephele

The possibility of Palin becoming President is scary danger enough for me. Her people let prank calls get through to her. Audette said Palin was among the easiest celebrities they've been able to reach by phone, and one of the least skeptical, who answered questions for several minutes. "She was as gullible as Britney Spears," he said. Picture some prankster calling President Palin (should McCain kick it), identifying himself as Putin, and saying "The missiles have been launched!" Nah, maybe not. But I decided to go Joebama. -- Nephele

Hahahahahaha! Euge! -- Nephele

Augusta, it's the same deal here in the U.S., with the government too often thinking they know what's best for everyone. We employ our government officials with our taxes and votes -- yet somehow things have gotten turned around and our government officials, instead of rightly behaving as our employees, too often seem to think that they are our masters. I don't think it'll get to the point here in the U.S. where our government might start issuing directives to stifle town board members or congressmen from using Latin terms in their communications. Besides the "free speech" issue (always a hot one, here in the U.S.), one can see the parody possibilities for such nonsense, and how damaging that would be to officious, anti-Latin officials (e.g. that link to Dr. Peter Jones's hilarious response, that Maty posted). -- Nephele

From the article: In instructions to staff, the council said: "Not everyone knows Latin. Many readers do not have English as their first language so using Latin can be particularly difficult." Are we to believe that it's only the English who ever use Latin terms? When did Latin become the exclusive province of the English-speaking world? I'm serious. Are people who "do not have English as their first language" -- people from, say, Spain or Japan really that likely to be baffled when encountering the term status quo? Not all foreigners are dummies. But an awful lot of English-speaking government officials appear to be. -- Nephele

I'm already planning on reviewing that one. But I've got my review copy coming from the publisher (hopefully, as they did promise). If not, I'm using you, Viggen, as back-up! -- Nephele For anyone else interested in this book, I have new information that the book's publication date has been pushed back, and now it's not due to be out before October of next year. -- Nephele

Wow! Check this out! Great animation and special effects! Roman Playmobile: The Film. Part 1 -- Nephele

I discovered Playmobile's Roman theme back last January. Check it out. -- Nephele (ain't never gonna grow up)

Good point, Ingsoc, regarding the influence of eastern provinces' culture on Roman naming practices. Examples of a hybridization of Latin names can even be found in the time of the republic, with Etruscan elements incorporated into the names of a number of prominent Roman families. In his work, The Latin Cognomina, Iiro Kajanto cites the following scholars who have also dealt with specific foreign elements found in Roman names: Bechtel (Greek), Holder (Celtic), and Krahe (Illyrian). -- Nephele

Birthday hails to you, and have a cool day! -- Nephele

I did find an article titled "M. Porcius the Wine Merchant" by Robert J. Rowland, Jr. (Historia, Jun. 1969), in which the author described MPC the wine merchant as having been a wealthy Licinian cousin of MPC Uticensis, and perhaps the son of the consul of 118. Because this son had been named Marcus (like his father, the consul of 118) and had died in Gallia Narbonensis, Rowland identified him with the MPC wine merchant whose amphorae (stamped with his name) were found in Gallia Narbonensis. I mention this, because Komet earlier in this thread said: "that particular coin is in fact attributed to a M. Porcius Cato, who was perhaps a wine seller." It would be interesting to know if this is the same MPC wine merchant. By the way, I just want to give Komet here a hail for posting the link to the University of Virginia Art Museum's numismatics collection. Komet -- Ethan -- your digitalization project looks like a quite an amazing undertaking and certainly a useful research tool for students and scholars! As I stated previously, numismatics leaves me flummoxed. So I hope, Komet/Ethan, that you'll be patient with my question: How do we know for certain that the MPC coin discussed here was minted in 89 BCE? (Barring any obvious date imprinted on the coin, of course -- which I couldn't see in the picture.) Could the coin in question possibly have been minted a couple of years earlier -- which would then coincide with the dates given by Broughton for when a Marcus Porcius Cato was serving in the office of Monetal? -- Nephele

Broughton mentions an MPC who was a Monetal, ca. 93-91 BCE (not included in Pauly-Wissowa). But... this can't be your man, can it? If the coin in question was minted in 89 BCE? My 1890 edition of Smith's Dictionary, also mentions the MPC coin, but again this is confusing if, as you've already pointed out, Cato the Younger was no older than six when this coin was minted. As Smith wrote: "On the coins of the Porcia gens, we find only the names of C. Cato and M. Cato. Who the former was is quite uncertain; the latter is M. Cato of Utica." Smith provides an illustration of the MPC coin (both sides) and the reverse side of the coin in the sketch ("Victory seated") looks very much like the reverse side of the 89 BCE coin pictured on the website. The obverse of the coin in Smith's illustration and the coin on the website differ slightly, however. I'm sorry, but numismatics leaves me flummoxed. Perhaps someone else with a copy of Broughton (Ingsoc?) can make more sense of this. -- Nephele