Nephele

You perfectly know that Josephus was a rebel traitor, a Jewish turncoat and a Flavian client (in fact, a former "terrorist"); I'm sure you have no trouble in perceiving his evident and understandable bias against his former comrades. Please check it out on Livius.org. Sylla, considering that you frequently ask others to provide evidence for their assertions, I believe it would behoove you to be a bit more specific in your response to MPC here. While Livius.org is an admirable resource, simply supplying a URL doesn't really answer MPC's question: "How do we know the bones discovered there were of people trying to flee?" -- Nephele

Moved to Academia.

Aw, they didn't give The Count a part in it. -- Nephele

I'd pay money to see a movie about Galla Placidia, especially if done right. Sounds like an inspired suggestion! -- Nephele

Belated birthday hails to you, Kosmo! I must have totally spazzed out yesterday to have missed your birthday (although Sylla caught it). So here's a public hail to you. Hope you had a cool day yesterday! -- Nephele

Our Fervidus must have seemed a threat to A. Patricius Romanus and the whole Roman order. There is a passage from Paul in which he states that " neither Greek nor Jew, male or female, slave or free..." Precisely, Ludovicus, and that's the point I was attempting to get across with my little scenario of A. Patricius Romanus and his recently converted slave of Latin extraction. It could only seem to Romanus that his slave Fervidus was being somewhat presumptuous, in suddenly claiming to be "a part of a continuum of thousands of years of religious tradition" merely by virtue of having recently converted to the new cult. No doubt in the East the Christian cult might have been tolerated as an off-shoot of Judaism. But to those back in the mother city of Roma, familiar (perhaps to the point of contempt) with the new converts coming primarily from the slave population and lower classes, I can't really see any such claims of religious precedence by the Roman Christians as being taken seriously and earning them the same level of tolerance granted to the Jews. Paul's assertion of neither Greek nor Jew was probably at least one thing that the Romans might agree on, regarding the Christians. Sorry to take this a bit-off topic, folks. I now return you to the interesting discussion of Graeco-Roman influences and the American Revolution. Is that why he included "the pursuit of happiness" in the Declaration? I never thought of that before, but that does make sense and ties in quite well! -- Nephele

Can you explain that? By "modern American construct" I meant that the term "Judeo-Christian" was coined in the late 19th or early 20th century (I believe in the U.S., but I haven't got the O.E.D. handy right now) to describe those religious values thought to be common to both Judaism and Christianity that are influential on Western civilization. As for the early Christians in Rome... I can't help but smile a bit as I imagine A. Patricius Romanus looking somewhat askance at his slave, Fervidus (who has only recently heard the Word and converted to the new Christian cult) as Fervidus (descended from a long line of domestic-bred slaves) humbly requests his master's patience and acceptance, explaining how he is "a part of a continuum of thousands of years of religious tradition." -- Nephele

Yes, that excerpt to which you linked confirms what I stated about how the Romans viewed the Christians as being immoral in their refusal to acknowledge other deities, in addition to how the Jews were cut some slack due to their ancient traditions. But, unless I'm missing something, I don't see a mention there of the Christians having attempted to pass themselves off as "a continuum of thousands of years of religious tradition" in order to receive the same dispensation from the Romans that the Jews received. If anything, it's my understanding that the Christians viewed themselves as something new and different from Judaism, referring to their Christ as the "new Adam." (With the apparently inclusive term of "Judeo-Christian" being a modern American construct.) Could you perhaps point me to the section in that book that states otherwise? -- Nephele

I don't see how Christians pointing out that "they were a part of a continuum of thousands of years of religious tradition" might have impressed the Romans to the extent of making the Romans more accepting than usual of such a religion, considering how new cults were easily accepted into Roman society. I'd thought that it was the atheism of the Christians

http://www.unrv.com/government/consul.php http://www.unrv.com/government/emperor.php http://www.unrv.com/government/index-of-roman-laws.php

I'm curious, too, to hear of any primary sources describing staged fights between lions and tigers in Roman amphitheaters. The biggest problem in staging such fights, I should imagine, would be in actually getting the lions and tigers to cooperate by fighting with each other. Pliny mentions, in his Historia Naturalis, who first introduced the combat of lions at Rome. The following is the Bostick and Riley translation, and can be found at the old Perseus Project website here:

Well said (both you and MPC). But I think the folks of the Broadway musical Avenue Q sang it best. Check out this clever dubbing of "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" to scenes from Disney's Lion King II: -- Nephele

We had quite a discussion about the Masada TV mini-series a couple of years ago. You may be interested in checking it out: http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7163&hl -- Nephele

That's certainly a relief to hear, J. Thanks! -- Nephele

I'm already making plans to see this exhibit when it comes to New York City's Discovery Times Square Exposition in April. btw, I thought the recent "Lucy's Legacy" exhibit at DTSX was a bit of a disappointment. It was, like, nine-tenths propaganda for Ethiopia's tourism (?) industry, or whatever, before you even got to the actual exhibit on Lucy and her evolutionary relatives. Honestly, I had little to zero interest in learning about King Haile Selassie's connection to the Rastafarians. The Titanic exhibit (which ran concurrently with the Lucy exhibit at DTSX) received far more visitors -- even after DTSX halved the price of the tickets for the Lucy exhibit. I think a number of people were put off by the Ethiopian government's annoying pushing of "What a Wonderful Nation We Have in Ethiopia!" I sure hope the Tut exhibit doesn't turn out to be the same thing with Egypt. -- Nephele

Interesting book, Ingsoc. No, there's no ancient proof that the three Republican era branches of the Porcii were related, but it's highly probable that they were distantly related. The Roman gens, in its earliest form, was a group of people claiming descent from a common ancestor. Members of the same branch of a particular gens were clearly more closely related to each other than to the general membership of the gens on the whole. Freedmen and clients who customarily took the gens names of their former masters and patrons would be distinguished from the original family by adding a different cognomen of their own

Welcome aboard, Rob! -- Nephele

Huh. When I had rhinovirus, all I got were unsightly little birds on my back. -- Nephele

A treasure indeed! Many thanks for this UNRV public service announcement, MPC! -- Nephele

2012... Heheh. I love a good disaster movie. Haven't decided yet if I'll watch this one in the theater or wait for the DVD. The last end-of-the-world disaster movie I saw was Knowing (with Nicolas Cage) and that was a big disappointment. It was just so... goofy. I can't get too excited about the Olympics, although the controversy generated by the choice of host cities/countries each time amuses me. -- Nephele

I know, I read that great review of Maty's book, that you just submitted. Viggen will be putting it up soon. -- Nephele

What fun! You have a fine, warm speaking voice, Maty! -- Nephele

Nice find, Melvadius, but it looks like another UNRV member posted this news a little bit earlier: Buried Hoard Day! Topic closed, and traffic directed to earlier posted topic. -- Nephele

It's nice to see you posting here at UNRV, Dr. Turchin. Welcome! (And looking forward to seeing more of your postings here). -- Nephele

Regarding the subject of "animal rights" in conjunction with environmentalism in ancient times... Bill Thayer gives a convenient link on his website from the Smith article on Venatio to the cited law in the Codex Iustinianus that states that beasts intended for the games had to be conveyed safely and without injury (to the animals). But this bit of seemingly humane treatment probably had more to do with practicality than kindness. Same here. -- Nephele