Augustus Caesar

I have often wondered exactly what I would do if I could go back in time to the era when Rome was glorious and all powerful under Augustus. Basically as a fly on the wall but preferably able to interact with anyone without changing the course of history in any way. Would I go to the Senate and see how it worked? Would I follow Augustus around to see the politic of the guy? Would I try to understand Livia or any one of the great man's family? Would I walk the streets getting a feel for every day living as an ordinary citizen? Would I prefer to be a soldier or Centurion or part of the Palace Guard? Would I make notes of everything I see and bring it all back to prove historians wrong? Would I keep the information to myself so as to not destroy too many illusions? Would I do a disservice by not talking of what I had learned? Would I look at all the ancient structures in their true glory and disprove so many theories about them? There are hundreds of questions I would ask here and many more for the Romans were I to go back to their ancient and wonderful (?) world. So I ask you all... what would you do? Given you couldn't take ANY technology with you nor be able to alter history or influence anyone or anything while there directly or indirectly. All you could do would be able to draw or write things down. You could talk to many people, including all the top brass without any fears. You would have six months to observe... let's say you couldn't be killed either and if you were you wouldn't be allowed back there for a second chance (just to keep it simple here)!!! Look at it objectively and come back with what you may have discovered within those six months.... be sensible!! I am curious to see just what you folk are keen to know that isn't obvious by your posts. Personally and briefly, I would be looking at the construction of the major buildings plus my obvious favourite, Hadrian's Wall. I would also look to see how the politics worked in the Senate especially at the time of Augustus himself. His family intrigue me a lot and so any facts I could find about them would be wonderful. Many things like scrolls that would contain many of our missing links in history and also for greater knowledge of how Rome managed to construct the Empire it dd. Also basic, mundane, everyday life of its citizens. How did they really get on? Was it so different to today in comparison of theirs and our struggles to survive? The list goes on.... I await like a true Roman would.....

Hi Klingan The hotel The Augusta mentions is the Jesmond Park Hotel and they take the following... "We accept - Cash, Cheques accompanied by a valid Bankers Switch or Solo Card, Visa, Mastercard and Eurocard." Sadly, no mention of a Maestro card (or is that a Eurocard? - I wouldn't know that one!!). So your borrowing of a Visa may be beneficial. However, I would beware of security measures when using the card in this country. It is fairly tight here now and you may have to draw cash on it. Something for you think about. Hope that helped..

Glad to be of help Klingan. The hotel will hopefully be booked by January or Febuary at the latest. We will inform you as soon as we know what the costs are so everybody can sort their money out with the maximum amount of time available. Deposits may be required but last time round we didn't have to pay anything at all so no real need to worry about that just now. The Augusta is looking after the booking so don't worry about that. If anyone needs more information or has any questions do ask.

Klingan... Hi... I'm not too sure off hand what the exchange rate is for Sweden. I used to as it was one of the first countries I wanted to visit many years ago. I have not been abroad yet and it is still on my agenda for the future. Stockholm and its wonderful Archipelago is a big draw for me. Anyway, I will see Gail about costs for the hotel she is in touch with (or soon will be) and will post back about that. Travel costs will depend upon whether or not we have our own drivers or need to use public transport. For that you will need no more than

Hey GoC... I'll be working on that very soon. If you look back at the other thread for our cancelled meet you can find an itinerary there of sorts that we may be sticking reasonably close to. That may help give you an idea of what is possible. Of course, as soon as I do have definite details I will post here. Accommodation and numbers are important and we will have to gauge things around who may have or who may require to share transport. If that is not feasable we will use the train or some such mode of mobility. We hope to have all that sorted byu January or so. The Augusta has kindly agreed to help with the search for accommodation and we may choose the aborted hotel from last year as they were so helpful. We'll check others too. So, keep an eye open in here and I will post all new info as soon as I have it.

Double post? My goodness... you must be keen to come!!! Or was it the beer or wine? the latter!!! And so it now looks brighter than ever - I have had other commitments too privately so it all looks very good. I can now try and put an itinerary togetherwhich will include a stay in Jesmond and travel to the Wall which helps if the weather isn't too good. More on that later as Augusta has offered to help organise that part too. This follows from her excellent efforts last time round when other vents got in our way somewhat and forced us to rethink. So for all who have come back so far - THANK YOU! Hopefully our 'tour' will enlighten you all as to the greatness of our heritage here in the North of England. Some of you have seen it before and some have not seen it at all. So I will take all that into consideration. Let's make it a good one!!

Hi all Many thanks to those who have replied and committed so far. Doc, it is nice to see you may be able to get here for this event. We look forward to seeing you!! July isn't too bad weather-wise here but it can rain so be prepared... anyway, I'll book gorgeous weather for all of us to wallow in!! I will look very closely at the itinerary again very soon and will let you know what we can do for places to stop and eat. This is important of course but there are cafe's in the forts usually so if everyone wants to sample their cuisine we can go for that. As I say we'll look at this shortly. We need to know numbers and have things confirmed for accommodation etc first and then sort out how our mealtimes will be spread. Anyway, it'll sort itself and we can look forward to a grand ol' time!! BTW Pertinax... I have checked that link and I do not believe I know the farm concerned. The meals there must be very good as you say but the farm may be a tad too far west for our purposes. I will check when our itinerary is nearly finalised of course. So far, so good then!!

Well folks... it looks like a date may be fairly near to being a fixed feature of this event. As it stands just now the dates we are looking at will be July 25 through 27 (Fri to Sun). Any commitments that are likely to arise for me on that weekend will now have to take second place. So if everyone can come back to me with their thoughts on those dates and a fair amount of commitment I can pencil them in for us. Hotels in or near Newcastle will feature and maybe Augusta can help out with that as she did so well last time round. If not I will look into it. Contact will have to be made with NN too to see if he is still willing to share organising duties and we also have to finalise details on talks to be given by at least three folks on this tour. So, if you're all willing to commit now then go ahead. I need numbers early so we can look at multi bookings and possible discounts in hotels or B&B's etc. I await your replies..... AC

Hmmm... I didn't pick up on the distance thing either!! As you say though there is only a suggestion of one entrance and that doesn't bode well for a fort. Indeed it looks as if it may be a case of gathering their (scant?) evidence together and looking at it in some detail or looking forward to a further expansive dig or geophys scan.

Thanks for that Melvadius... this explains a lot. I know little of the Roman occupations to the south of England apart from the obvious ones so as you say they would pass by the already pro Roman folk (and that makes sense) and build defences where necessary further north. Thus bypassing this particular area we are discussing. Whether Ghost will be convinced is somewhat another matter of course. It is felt that the decision to say 'no Roman' was hasty. Still, I am sure he will come back and pass comment on this. I look forward to his thoughts.

Hi there GhostofClayton!! I have answered your post in my own forum and as I have done so there is no need to reply here... just in case others are wondering why I have not done so. The site itself will undergo another transformation soon - I keep getting sidetracked to do other websites!! - and the forum will be pushed again no doubt. I fear the trouble is that it deals with Hadrian's Wall mostly and it needs opening out. It also needs others to post as I am sure everyone is aware. What I would like is to have someone give a few pointers to what subjects I could include... ah well....... Anyway.. I am sure to meet you at Arbeia as arranged elsewhere on the Saturday of the 10th Nov. so hopefully my ear infection that has plagued me for nearly a week now will be sorted by then!! We'll talk for a while I am sure so I'll see you there....

I agree to a certain extent about the Romano British side of things as Caldrail puts it... but as no dates have been given so far for the Roman finds we cannot assume that this is early Roman or whenever. Do we have dates then for the finds you mention in your 'stop press', Ghost?

There is agreement with what Caldrail says here about Romans building forts or fortlets even for the purposes he mentions although I do feel there would be more reasons than what would be considered the norm. Ghost posted this original question in my own forum but as numbers lack there we agreed a post here may be of more help. My reply to his original question (as Ghost is Centurion on that forum) was as follows... I have done a small search and found this little snippet which no doubt you may have spotted on the North Lincs Council website... "Countess Close and Julian

The Latin for that ( 'er indoors ) is actually 'suus intus' - so there we go!! Hope you can make it Ghost - the more the merrier! Andrew... it'll be good to see you again and hopefully if WW can't be part of the group we will see him at Vindolanda hard at work in a hole digging up something rather spectacular like a scroll containing and edict from the Emperor!! He's probably more likely to find yet another shoe!! They've got loads of 'em there! Oh, btw, thanks for the advice once again re the email I sent asking about fish sauce! Because we have been so busy we haven't had much chance to try the alternative you gave... but we will by the time this meet comes about so I'll let you know what we think! Just as a passing thought - if Sally Grainger were asked to come along for part of our jaunt would she do that voluntarily and maybe give us a talk on Roman foods and offer a small demonstration? This would be an entirely private thing for our group alone and not public. I can't beleive you haven't visited the Wall Andrew. This will be a momentous occasion for you then. If everything works and falls into place you should leave with fond memories of it as wll others. So far everything is looking better for this trip than the last planned one. Better timing and better numbers - so hopefully when the time comes round we'll have plenty to say and do.

Time machines? They are sadly out of my reach with my humble savings of about

Great news Klingan... by all means try anything... anything at all. It'll be good to have you here - in fact it'll be fantastic!! We'll all make you feel very welcome indeed! Have you been to the Wall before or even England?

Klingan my dear friend... you have the advice of cathcing boats, swimming, flying and all else but funds lack... how about hitching it? I thought you Scandinavians were good at that sort of thing? Or did I read it somewhere? WotWotius... If you are at Vindolanda then we will undoubtedly pay you a visit and ask hundreds of questions to either annoy you or test your newly found knowledge!! Well, OK - we'll pop in and see you!! If you are there and obvioulsy finish your dig at 5pm-ish wouldn't you be able to join us later on? Even in Newcastle on the Saturday or Friday when we all gather? So, we'll be on the lookout over the hills for flyers, swimmers who are drying out as they walk through the wideopen grasslands, hikers who have large backpacks with blue and yellow flags on them or a wanderer wearing a canoe!!

Hi Pertinax Whilst the idea above is made by yourself I will address the response generally if that is OK... you may see my intention when you read on... These are distinct possibilties. I have been to Bath recently and it was fabulous. Chester we have not been to. That doesn't rule out either for us as we are both very keen to see any Roman area in Britain. So any suggestions are going to be good ones as are the above. There is the Wall meet which will be our organised trip and a 'social' meet could well be a different location each year as opposed to York, which can become, as I have pointed out earlier, 'samey'. That is no disrespect to the fair city of York at all but to go to the same place each year may not hold an appeal for most. It could also come down to costs too as travelling to destinations twice in one year may not suit all. In that way some may get to one and not the other so that may work. We can play that one by ear as we do not wish any social meet to take emphasis from the Wall one at this stage. Of course, folks can privately arrange a social meet if they so wish and that could actually be a much better way of doing things. That way it will not confuse anyone here as to which meet is the 'official' one so to speak. Social gatherings could be organised to meet anywhere in England and we could also have our annual 'official' meet in different locations around the country. This would also facilitate those living nearer the area of destination to organise things as opposed to someone who doesn't know that area too well. This also spreads the 'workload' around the group and gives everyone a feeling of belonging and being able to organise something they wish to see/do as opposed to the same people picking their own preferences etc. There are several ways to do each here as we would agree no doubt but ideas are always welcome and will not be pushed aside without due consideration I am sure. Whilst I am organising this trip around the Wall I would not wish to give anyone the impression I will organise each trip each year or anything remotely like that. I know that may not sound quite right or read the way I wish it to but I would far sooner see (from my own humble point of view) a good spread of sites to visit and each of us take on some organising to allow those to come to fruition. So, yes, we could have social meets around the country but should we organise those in a different way? For example through private PM's or on a different thread? One thing is we don't want them to clash with any other meets we organise in the future and have them detract from those. Or, indeed, to completely take over? Anyway, plenty of food for thought there, so ideas are welcome of course. But do remember that this thread is mainly for the Wall meet so do try to keep things 'minimal' so we do not lose our way here. At the moment a social meet for us before the Wall one would not be feasible I fear but if others wish to do that then please do of course. My own target for now is to organise the Wall meet and get things off to a grand start as quick as possible and who knows maybe a social meet somewhere like York (?) may be a thing we could get to. I leave that one there...

Ah Vibius I could hire a few hundred trucks and then a couple of really large jets and load the whole Wall on to those with the gang hidden in the middle of some parts of the Wall and bring the whole kit and kaboodle to Alice Springs or somewhere close to hand!! If only...!!!!! Of course, you would have to pay! December is smack in the middle of our winter as you know and most of the Wall would become inaccessible for obvious reasons. Some areas open for specific days or what have you but alas we are going to turn down your request unfortunately. Nice try though!! Couldn't you make it then in July or near that date? I know it'll cost a packet but one never knows.... And so to doc.... it's good news that you may be able to make it this time round and hopefully the dates will be static enough to say to you that July is probably the best bet with June a close second. We will organise around those dates if plenty members can do that so you at least have something to aim for even now. I hope it works out for you and you do eventually get to see our superb heritage as far as the Wall goes. So far then, without being too presumptious on names I give below, we can almost certainly count on the following... Augustus Caesar (my good self) and my lady wife Flavia, Augusta, Northern Neil, Andrew Dalby and his good lady, Caldrail, Pertinax and docoflove1974. So there's 10 already. Now, talks were meant to have been given by myself, NN, Augusta and Caldrail and this I assume will still be the case so there will be plenty of chances to rib us and call us names if we get stuff wrong. Just beware we will have lions awaiting in one of the forts so be careful!! Hopefully the numbers will be correct as far as the above go and we do honestly want as many as possible to come along and make it hugely successful. So do try and commit as soon as possible so we have an idea of numbers in total.

So here we are folks.. looking forward to a new venture for our brave soldiers who wish to do battle with the barbarians on Hadrian's Wall come the summer of 2008!! After this year's event was cancelled because of circumstances that were initially beyond our control etc we are about to venture on a new campaign that will hopefully see our legionaries come together in a show of defiance that will astound the locals into showering us with lots of good food, beer and who knows, maybe chests of gold (I wish)! OK... seriously now... I am targeting a range of dates that will cover June, July and early September at the outside. The preference is for June or July and probably before the kids break up for summer holidays here at the end of July. The best weekend may be one of those in the latter mentioned month. There will be an itinerary similar to that which was planned for this year and if the weather gives us grief then a contingency plan will be put in place so no-one will get unduly soaked all day!! The original plan was to visit Vindolanda and possibly Housesteads or even Chesters, Corbridge or Birdoswald. Being Hadrian's Wall the weather could be unpredictable but that will not dampen our mad enthusiasm. If the Romans could put up with it for a few hundred years then a couple of hours will not harm us... (he says!!). So what I am looking for here and now is a list of possible candidates who feel they could very well make it or indeed WILL make it along next year. I need to find dates from you all that you can make with relative confidence as we don't want to find changes of dates having to be enforced. Everyone is welcome of course. Accommodation will be sought when we have numbers deemed worthy of making tentative bookings. I do hope to have all that tied up very early this time round so as not to disappoint. Late comers will be welcome but may find they need to book up themselves if we have already done so as a group. Transport may be of help depending upon numbers coming so any of you that could bring transport along could you let me know? If that is not feasible then other arrangements via public transport will be sought. The Hadrian's Wall Bus has been a shocker this year after timetable changes but next year may see further changes. I will post those if there are any or as soon as I find the new timetable has been published. Accommodation may be sought either in Jesmond, near Newcastle, where tons of facilities are available or Hexham which is more central to the Wall but with lesser amenities as opposed to the former. I will leave that there for now so please do let me know your intentions or possible thoughts as soon as you are able. Go Hadrian!!!!!

OK everyone... the vibes so far seem very positive although it very early days. It seems a summer meet would go down very well as opposed to April and this was my intention anyway. So without going into too much here I will now open a new thread entitled UK Meet 2008 and anyone wishing to pen a contribution or express a wish to join us should now head over there and make yourselves a nice cup of tea and tell the rest of us your plans! So effectively this thread is now done with and all future discussions should be placed in the new area as of a couple of minutes time!! Thank you to everyone who supported the meet that never was and hopefully we will make the 2008 event one we will never forget for all the right reasons... AC

Hi Pertinax We could do. I had given it a passing thought but as everyone had discussed York when we were there in April as an annual place to meet I discarded the idea. However, if we pick the same place each year it could get too 'samey'... so if everyone else agrees we could change the venue and have the Wall as the meet next year and going to, maybe, somewhere like Fishbourne the year after for our southern based members as I believe WotWotius mentioned. As Andrew, Augusta and probably NN will almost certainly agree already anyway this may be a winner. If you come back with positive thoughts here I will open a new thread altogether and start to get a general feeling from all members to holding the meet there. The format will be the same. Friday evening through Sunday. If cars are available then we can stay local to Newcastle as hexham may be expensive. We'll investigate that nearer the time when agreement has been reached on venue. Let me know what you think about the idea then and I will open the thread forthwith after a chat with Gail and NN to gauge their thoughts.... I would hope Caldrail would still come too as he was to give a talk! I await your reply....

Just as an addendum to the possible meeting with Comitatus this September 29... well, circumstances conspired against me and as I was ill over the weekend and much of the following week I was unable to meet them. I took ill on the Friday and only in the last four or five days have I got much better. I have tried to be upbeat during this and it was only that I couldn't face travelling that stopped me going along. Anyway, I have contacted the group commander and will possibly arrange a meeting when they come up to our area and visit Arbeia Roman Fort. If I can get enough information from him regarding his group I will post that data here as well as my own site which needs a complete rewrite and must also be streamlined. A learning curve with a new language has allowed me write a few sites away from my own and neglect seems to be the word for that one. So a new project is in the pipeline... those who have visited the site regularly will see changes start hopefully this year or early next. As far as the Hadrian's Wall meeting goes this will be a project for June or July next year and I will be in touch with my fellow organisers in due course. I have already had positive vibes from Andrew Dalby and of course if we do pick those dates then I will begin a new thread altogether as this one is now really done with. Thank you all for your patience this time round. We also hope to have one or two of our American friends come along as they couldn't make it this time. We'll wait and see how it all goes so keep an eye open for a new thread. AC

Good day to you all... after a lapse in health and typing ability I rejoin this debate... NN... I used to own both a 3" refractor and 4.5" reflector many years ago when they used to cost the same as a planet!!! I now use only my own eyes and binoculars. My main field of interest in astronomy is meteors and their associated phenomena. So that explains that one... Caldrail... my apologies mate! I didn't mean to send you cowering off into a corner rubbing your wounded limbs! I stand by what I say however and I am sure others will agree with me here. Anyway... I think enough said on that topic. I don't wish you to go for revenge around a corner when we may meet on future UK meets so I offer a handshake to a fellow Roman buddy and maybe we can share a good drink when we next meet and not have a bout of fistycuffs where one of us may meet his untimely end . That would be most sad as a good drinking session would be wasted!! Anyway... I forward greetings to all fellow amateur astronomers on these humble forums and may we all enjoy the fruits of our favourite hobbies for many years to come.

Faustus Hi... I envy you enormously living in a country where you can get away from light pollution without too much difficulty. Here in England there are so few spots that can be truly rewarding it is quite sad. However, witnessing a storm of the ilk you describe would be a dream come true for me although I would hardly be able to count the darned things!! That would be of little importance to a casual observer and not much of an important thing to myself either unless I had a camera to measure the activity. I remember many years ago watching a Perseid shower that was one of the best recorded in modern times. I recorded 117 meteors in one hour and you may think that is trivial. In some ways yes it is but as the light around me was quite bright I found that a remarkable figure as did the BAA officials I sent my report in to. It was the highest figure obtained nationally on that night which was quite a result for me. It doesn't really matter what numbers you see really or record - it is down to the absolute majesty of seeing a streak of light silently glide across the firmament and within a second or two completely vanish only for the anticipation of seeing another build into a frenzy when a shower reaches its peak. Part of the excitement is when you observe when no shower activity is present and one spots several sporadic meteors. This is either tantalisingly a small number or better still about a dozen per hour. You never know where or when they are coming and they appear from all parts of the heavens. Absolutely magnificent. I took my wife out to observe this phenomenon for her first time and she fell in love with them. It thrills her even now after all these years as a non astronomer to see something just catch the vision for a second or so and disappear leaving her with the satisfaction that another piece of heavenly magic has set off a spark which makes her want to stay and see more. We have witnessed a shower together too and that makes me feel proud. This is one of the last bastions of astronomy that the professionals cannot really take away from the amateur and the awesome displays make each observation so worthwhile. You mention a book by a guy called Menzel... Donald that is. That book was one of the first I ever bought and I still have it. It is a first edition. I treat it with so much respect. An excellent book. The table is by no means a full one though. The BAA yearbooks give a fuller table and even that omits some of the lesser known minor showers. But what the heck!! Who really cares? If you wanna know them you'll find them and observe them anyway. Good watching Faustus!! I may just go out again one of these winter nights when it is so cold and I may take my wife and a flask too... I look forward to it!