Augustus Caesar

Dukinfield? I've not heard of that place before. Is it a village or a town, as you said, maybe of some size? Come to think of it... how did it get its name? A duck in the field maybe? I'll ponder that one until you come back to us!! Aaaawwww... not speaking... ah well, a Lancashire accent is nice and I will listen out for you. It seems us northerners are keen to spread the word anywhere... I'd just like to know what the 'word' is!! Could it be................ wait for it!!!................... Romans?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Well, a bit more solid news about this folks!!! After digging deeper into the Beeb site I went to their Press Office pages and got this from a list of items... Rome Kevin McKidd, Ray Stevenson, James Purefoy, Polly Walker, Tobias Menzies, Lindsay Duncan and Kerry Condon return for a second series of the BBC and HBO's Rome, the epic tale of the rise of one of the world's most powerful Empires told through the stories of masters and slaves alike. Having lost his wife, and played an integral part in Caesar's death, Vorenus begins the series a broken man. However, with the ever-loyal Pullo alongside him, Vorenus soon becomes a key player in Mark Antony's fight for control of Rome. In the wake of Caesar's death, a vicious struggle for power and supremacy erupts, with Brutus and Servilia pitted against Mark Antony and Atia. With so much to play for, who will ultimately triumph? Simon Woods joins the cast as Atia's son, Octavian, who turns against Mark Antony and Atia, leaving the city in order to raise an army and make his own bid for power. This was posted on the 12 Dec 2006 and I don't know how I missed it but there you are!!! http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele...12/bbctwo.shtml There is still no defined date but Spring is anything through to May so maybe when the US run ends it will start here. HERE'S HOPING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting back to the question of When in Britain do we get to see Rome Series 2? Well, after several attempts at contacting the Beeb they keep directing me to their coming soon pages etc... It seems the programme is commissioned (NEVER IN THE WORLD!!!!!) etc but no date for transmission has been set. And that's it folks!!! I have the 1st series on DVD and have watched it a few times and think it gets better each time. My favourite Roman series is I Claudius. Absolutely fantastic. Low budget yes but who cares? And what about Pompeii, the Last Day and its partner Colosseum? Excellent - but unavailable here!! Ooohhh it drives me nuts!! The HBO folks had plans for at least five and possibly six series of Rome but it now seems to have been scrapped after two. Some folk don't they are born do they? Just imagine, as our good friend Northern Neil pointed out, we made Jade a 'celeb'... are we really getting that thick??? Here's the link to see the spurious text about the Beeb schedules for 'coming up'... http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/coming_up.shtml Just scroll to find it alphabetically.

Rome was governed around the use of what is known as The Twelve Tables. I have had this on file for a while now and reproduce it below. I cannot remember the exact source but it is accurate enough to give you the idea of what they were about.... some of the categories inside each table have been omitted in this copy although that is how I got it originally.... Table I. 1. If anyone summons a man before the magistrate, he must go. If the man summoned does not go, let the one summoning him call the bystanders to witness and then take him by force. 2. If he shirks or runs away, let the summoner lay hands on him. 3. If illness or old age is the hindrance, let the summoner provide a team. He need not provide a covered carriage with a pallet unless he chooses. 4. Let the protector of a landholder be a landholder; for one of the proletariat, let anyone that cares, be protector. 6-9. When the litigants settle their case by compromise, let the magistrate announce it. If they do not compromise, let them state each his own side of the case, in the comitium of the forum before noon. Afterwards let them talk it out together, while both are present. After noon, in case either party has failed to appear, let the magistrate pronounce judgment in favor of the one who is present. If both are present the trial may last until sunset but no later. Table II. 2. He whose witness has failed to appear may summon him by loud calls before his house every third day. Table III. 1. One who has confessed a debt, or against whom judgment has been pronounced, shall have thirty days to pay it in. After that forcible seizure of his person is allowed. The creditor shall bring him before the magistrate. Unless he pays the amount of the judgment or some one in the presence of the magistrate interferes in his behalf as protector the creditor so shall take him home and fasten him in stocks or fetters. He shall fasten him with not less than fifteen pounds of weight or, if he choose, with more. If the prisoner choose, he may furnish his own food. If he does not, the creditor must give him a pound of meal daily; if he choose he may give him more. 2. On the third market day let them divide his body among them. If they cut more or less than each one's share it shall be no crime. 3. Against a foreigner the right in property shall be valid forever. Table IV. 1. A dreadfully deformed child shall be quickly killed. 2. If a father sell his son three times, the son shall be free from his father. 3. As a man has provided in his will in regard to his money and the care of his property, so let it be binding. If he has no heir and dies intestate, let the nearest agnate have the inheritance. If there is no agnate, let the members of his gens have the inheritance. 4. If one is mad but has no guardian, the power over him and his money shall belong to his agnates and the members of his gens. 5. A child born after ten months since the father's death will not be admitted into a legal inheritance. Table V. 1. Females should remain in guardianship even when they have attained their majority. Table VI. 1. When one makes a bond and a conveyance of property, as he has made formal declaration so let it be binding. 3. A beam that is built into a house or a vineyard trellis one may not take from its place. 5. Usucapio of movable things requires one year's possession for its completion; but usucapio of an estate and buildings two years. 6. Any woman who does not wish to be subjected in this manner to the hand of her husband should be absent three nights in succession every year, and so interrupt the usucapio of each year. Table VII. 1. Let them keep the road in order. If they have not paved it, a man may drive his team where he likes. 9. Should a tree on a neighbor's farm be bend crooked by the wind and lean over your farm, you may take legal action for removal of that tree. 10. A man might gather up fruit that was falling down onto another man's farm. Table VIII. 2. If one has maimed a limb and does not compromise with the injured person, let there be retaliation. If one has broken a bone of a freeman with his hand or with a cudgel, let him pay a penalty of three hundred coins If he has broken the bone of a slave, let him have one hundred and fifty coins. If one is guilty of insult, the penalty shall be twenty-five coins. 3. If one is slain while committing theft by night, he is rightly slain. 4. If a patron shall have devised any deceit against his client, let him be accursed. 5. If one shall permit himself to be summoned as a witness, or has been a weigher, if he does not give his testimony, let him be noted as dishonest and incapable of acting again as witness. 10. Any person who destroys by burning any building or heap of corn deposited alongside a house shall be bound, scourged, and put to death by burning at the stake provided that he has committed the said misdeed with malice aforethought; but if he shall have committed it by accident, that is, by negligence, it is ordained that he repair the damage or, if he be too poor to be competent for such punishment, he shall receive a lighter punishment. 12. If the theft has been done by night, if the owner kills the thief, the thief shall be held to be lawfully killed. 13. It is unlawful for a thief to be killed by day....unless he defends himself with a weapon; even though he has come with a weapon, unless he shall use the weapon and fight back, you shall not kill him. And even if he resists, first call out so that someone may hear and come up. 23. A person who had been found guilty of giving false witness shall be hurled down from the Tarpeian Rock. 26. No person shall hold meetings by night in the city. Table IX. 4. The penalty shall be capital for a judge or arbiter legally appointed who has been found guilty of receiving a bribe for giving a decision. 5. Treason: he who shall have roused up a public enemy or handed over a citizen to a public enemy must suffer capital punishment. 6. Putting to death of any man, whosoever he might be unconvicted is forbidden. Table X. 1. None is to bury or burn a corpse in the city. 3. The women shall not tear their faces nor wail on account of the funeral. 5. If one obtains a crown himself, or if his chattel does so because of his honor and valor, if it is placed on his head, or the head of his parents, it shall be no crime. Table XI. 1. Marriages should not take place between plebeians and patricians. Table XII. 2. If a slave shall have committed theft or done damage with his master"s knowledge, the action for damages is in the slave's name. 5. Whatever the people had last ordained should be held as binding by law. And so, that's it. When a crime was committed they would sometimes, obviously, not be able to fit it into one of the tables categories so they would loosely use one of them to punish the criminal.

You are a Geordie? Then you MUST speak at all costs. Now, I will unashamedly admit that I could listen to the Geordie accent for hours, and hours, and hours....... In fact, Augustus, should you wish to lecture us on particle physics or the historyof the vacuum cleaner, you have my vote to do so, just as long as you treat us to those sonorous syllables. Oooooppsss!!!!!!! Sort of dropped myself in it there didn't I? I don't desire the chava tag - I'll leave that to the genuine article thanks!! Particle physics??? What's that when it's at home? Oh yeah... it's when Picard gets transported to another planet and he falls to bits only for Humpty to put him back together again!!! My accent can be pretty strong but if I am supplied with lots of free drinks (I'm not a drinker really you know!) then I may be persuaded to let you all hear my dulcet tones for all of two or three minutes!!! Mind you if the throwing of expensive genuine Roman coins was to continue in my direction (not too hard though) I may be persuaded to carry on a bit. So you're from the land of the Mancs then Augusta (you've got the same monicle as the missus) - are we going to hear you at any point? Do you originate from that land mass or have you migrated in true Roman style from lands afar?

...and when you ride British motorbike, you have to do a lot of pushing!! And it's usually uphill as well!!!! Sadly I only have a bicycle which makes it a very long haul..... when you're not lookeing NN I'll try and nick your engine!! It seems our esteemed Pertinax is trying his best to get me to talk at this meet about Segedunum or maybe Hadrian's Wall... well, I might answer some questions if anyone has any.. but speak? I'm a Geordie and you'll probably not understand the lingo! After a few lagers or whatever I won't be able to understand myself so it's gonna be difficult. Camera ay? Well, what are we all planning on getting up to then? I know, I know... drinking a lot but what else? Oh yeah.......... lying down a lot to recover rings a bell... :drunk: :stretcher: :beer: :beer: :stretcher:

I havent! Still no sign?Is your mailbox full? Well, we seem to be moving apace now with the meet etc... I ain't been in here too much or indeed on my own forum because I am so stowed off writing a website which has to be ready for April 23rd. So it's a case of catch-up.... Pertinax - I'll pm my mobile to you so keep an eye out for that. I can't remember doing this from your message via my forum so will do it again!!! Doh!! If you've got it it just means you've got to ring me twice... first to tell me the meeting place and then secondly to remind me how to get there!! I'm pleased to see that the turnout will be very decent and look forward to meeting up with you all. I might learn something!! Like how to down a pint of grog in 1.1 seconds or how to heckle our speakers or even how to get back into the 'Roman' side of my life after all this work on other sites etc.... How's the itinerary going?

Let's hope it's not the drink then that's humbling one then P!! I'm pleased btw that the 'sober' terminology has been clarified by such studious folks as the members of this most learned of forums. Your knowledge of inebriation is unsurpassed. So how many drinks does it take to become a distinguished member of your must humble circle? One may partake of such beverages as a joining clause in York next spring!! But then again I may just remain drunk. :drunk:

Well at least the developers, Taylor Woodrow, are concerned and excited enough to want to preserve the remaining finds by tunneling under them. What a shame that in the past more of this type of agreement couldn't be reached. Our history would be a little clearer if they were. One question Viggen... do you know if the excavated areas or even part of it has been mooted for a more permanent display or are they to be back filled?

Well if it has cursed his family as much as he says why doesn't he give it away to the British Museum or similar? Seems he is hyping it a bit much... to push for a sale based on its 'mysticism', perhaps?

Hi CiceroD I've read all but the Delphi novel in order over the last two years and they are superbly written novels with excellent tales. Falco is a great character with a very understanding girlfriend, a family of his own and a dog called Nux. Great name that one. I like the mix of fiction and non-fiction - Lindsey Davis makes the stories almost real. About the 'film'... here's a snatch from her own site at http://www.lindseydavis.co.uk... "The Age of Treason. Columbia TV bought, for a very modest sum, rights to 'The Silver Pigs'. This was years ago, when neither Falco nor I were famous. I was persuaded that the producer liked my books for the reasons that made them distinctive, but when I saw the script it lacked my title, plot, dialogue, narrative style, narrative attitude, view of women, view of men, irony, and period authenticity. The only scene I recognised was from a book to which Columbia never owned the rights. I wrote and said what I thought; my name was taken off the film. I have never seen it. This film's existence had the advantage off holding of competing offers. I made it known that I seriously regretted the distress caused to my readers and that only if I was promised better would the rights ever be sold again. Note: film rights to 'The Course of Honour' remain with me." So there you have it. The BBC did have an option of a TV series but that has elapsed and LD is not over confident of a renewal. Go to the link above and look under Film Rights on the left menu. What about Simon Scarrow's novels based around Macro and Cato? You read any of them yet? They're better again, if that's possible, in their own right.

While I don't know Pantagathus (being relatively new here) this seems a popular and well deserved promotion. So well done fella. BTW - what's sober??

Is it really any wonder we feel that Rome and its culture etc is getting a renewal of interest when so much of our lives now are governed by decisions made 2,000 years ago? Our arts, culture, laws and goodness knows how many other parallels are easily seen to be drawn from Roman concepts. Now I know that a lot of their ideas etc were taken from Greece, Carthage and others but this does not detract from the question asked or our answers here. After all the empire lasted a very long time overall and didn't actually really finish until the fifteen hundreds although the western empire ended in the supposed year of 410AD. Influences can be found the world over whether or not Rome conquered some of these territories. Architecture is a very fine example and one need look no further than our American cousins and see the political setup and architecture there. So many countries and cultures have tried to copy Rome it seems that the idea of Rome and its dream is embedded in our souls. Is this where America gets her dream from? Human beings will virtually always hark bark to their roots and want to seek further truth in their lives and will go back to a time when they felt comfortable with themselves and maybe it's true of history. There is so much recorded history from this period and so much we know from archaeology and even common sense thinking that we sometimes may feel guilty of allowing it to become too romantic an idea that Rome was all so powerful but a great place to be. When we see that the great empire was sometimes so far removed from this romantic idea we seek solace in another area of their history. With so many people now understanding Rome and its diverse history (think about all the areas one could pick up a specialised subject in a quiz say) it is little wonder to me at all why it is the most fascinating period of our planets eras. Some folk are interested in only the emperors and some in the legions whilst others like the finds like a mosaic in a dig. But they are all interlinked and we can inevitably discuss with each other all our interests because they so easily overlap and there are over 1,000 years to cover too. The original question asked about the revival of Roman topics everywhere but I feel that this will happen for a long time to come. It will wane again and only the dedicated will keep the subject in the mix of, say, forums like this and web sites like my own. The media are a fickle bunch and will jump a bandwagon when it is there. Rome's history will never die and we can only learn and discover more. With all these discoveries etc the media will again be looking at ways of capitalising and the general feeling of 'Rome's in favour again' will surface. Movies may well be made but there is really a finite number of subjects known you can makes films about before they start doing what they are doing now... make remakes! There are so many famous names from the Roman period too and it is so easy to want to learn about them. Look at today when celebs find themselves on the front cover of magazines simply to satisfy our thirst for knowledge of who they are with, why and what they are doing next etc. Imagine..... Julius Caesar, the greatest general that ever lived, suddenly walks into a pub... the media would be all over it in a flash. We'd know more about him in one day than it would take for a historian to find out in two thousand years. Thus would end the romanticism and mystery. Maybe that's where it all lies.... in the romance and the history and the thirst for more knowledge.

Apparently the hand is a strong option. I've met Lyndsay on two occasions, being in the same neck of the woods, and she is highly skilled and most knowlegdable in this field. Part of her article I paste below... 'We do not know what this official mark looked like. It was possibly an eagle or the symbol of the soldier's legion or unit', she said. Lindsay has even unearthed evidence that the legionaries would have sported the tattoo on their hands. Aetius, the 6th century Roman doctor, recording that tattoos were found on the hands of soldiers, even documented the Roman technique for tattooing, which included first washing the area to be tattooed with leek juice, known for its antiseptic properties. Aetius even went so far as to document the formula for the tattooing ink, which combined Egyptian pine wood (especially the bark), corroded bronze, gall and vitriol with more leek juice. The design was pricked into the skin with pointed needles 'until blood is drawn', and then the ink was rubbed on. So there you have it. Not sure about the corroded bronze though!!!!!!

Thanks for the link longbow. Will go get it and give it a shot. Agree with last post in that a wonderful feeling comes over you when watching these progs and one can say, nonchalently as you like too, '..been there, done it and wiped them from the face of...' etc.

RTW is a fantastic game. I don't usually bother with games of this ilk but I made an exception this time. What's this other one you are all raving about then? RTRealism.... think I'll go check it out and see. Version 6? Is it a freebie or something being up to that versionor is it just that good several expansions have been made? Slap me if I'm wide of the mark...

Being my own area of interest, Hadrian's Wall, I must say I missed this in the press but note that the display is on until Christmas. The Museum of Antiquities holds some very fine specimens but is not big and those visiting would only spend an hour or two there at most if interested in inscriptions etc. But this should be quite interesting. I have never actually heard of a tatoo being worn by the soldiers on the Wall and I am surprised my wife says she has heard this somewhere. And I am the one with all the interest!!! Still, a visit shall be made forthwith!!

I've been watching this webcam on and off for the last year or so but not recnetly however. It seems it is a very damp night in Chester and the covers are on the site so they must have all gone to bed!! Some digs around and about will close for the season but I am not sure what is happening here. Is it all year round this year? Someone will know or maybe I should check the site itself?!?

Hi Pertinax Thanks for your support. It is appreciated. The latter link takes yu to the 'insides' of the site so to speak for Segedunum whereas the simpler form http://www.hadrians-wall.info takes you to the home page. I do know a reasonable amount about the Wall but I kid you not on the likes of its technicalities and such so would fail to deliver there I'm afraid. It would rather depend upon the level of knowledge most of you have here as to whether I could justify talking about it. What would I say anyway? I'm sure most folk would know the stuff I do and I would rather listen to other things anyway to broaden my own knowledge. I'm trying to get out of this here!! Seriously, I don't think I know enough yet to stand and deliver a talk but if arms are twisted I may answer a few basic questions. Note the term 'basic'!!! Now if you asked me about a specific fort like Segedunum I would know quite a bit because of my past involvement there. Anyway.............

Salve fellow Romans A new poster to this forum I may be but I've followed this thread with great interest and Pertinax has been a member of my own forum, which is new, (http://www.hadrians-wall.info/forumromanum) on my site about Hadrian's Wall for a little while now. While I am looking for new contributors to the forum I am very interested in meeting up with a lot of you in York in April 2007. I've been there before but not to look at Roman stuff unfortunately. So that will be new to me. My wife no doubt will come along as she has a basic interest in Roman archaeology and loves to see these places. My site initially concentrated on Segedunum (Wallsend) simply because I live so near it (ten minute walk!) but once that set of pages was completed I decided to expand it. Due to other things in life I neglected it for a while and closed down my old forum. I have now resurrected the site and completely modified it and added the forum above So if anyone is interested please take a look. The work I am doing on it expands geographically from east to west and although there are several areas under construction these will be filled up sooner rather than later. I digress, however. After reading this thread thus far and gleaned the dates do we have a general idea of what is happening re a talk etc? I know Pertinax asked if I could do a talk on Hadrian's Wall but my knowledge is not as vast as he may think!! I may get away with privately asked questions but we'll see. We all start somewhere!!

Hi Gaius My fault!! The 'd' was missed out from the URL!!! I have edited the post again to reflect the change. Thank you for pointing that one out. Great intro that isn't it when I can't even spell my own URL!! I'll put them in here too to save anyone scrolling... http://www.hadrians-wall.info http://www.segedunum.com The latter was the original site as at one time I was heavily involved with the fort staff and Tyne and Wear Museums. I have decided to expand the site though hence the first URL. Thanks again.

Hi all I'm a newbie here but I thought I should intro myself as the facility is available. I live in North East England and am currently rehashing my web site about Hadrian's Wall. I began the project a few years ago and because of courses etc I have rather neglected it in the last couple of years. I hate to say that!!! However, I have redesigned it and it is now available at http://www.harians-wall.info with a sub site for Segedunum (Wallsend) at http://www.segedunum.com I have just restarted a forum in there too under 'Of Interest' called the Forum Romanum. Feel free to join and suggest topics etc!! At the moment I am trying to revamp the gallery that shows pictures from Northern Neil (a member here) sent to me over the last two years. The present form shows the pictures but I am working on a version that will display the images larger than they are just now using CSS. It should be ready soon. The site will deal with all forts on or around the Wall and several pages are to be added shortly for the forts west of Pons Aelius (Newcastle Upon Tyne). Take a look and pop a post somewhere to let me know your thoughts or ideas. My main interests are Hadrians Wall and the Emperor's Augustus to Nero with a few more after that time including, of course, Hadrian. For my sins I support Newcastle United (no funnies please) and am currently studying Cisco Networking at college and Web Design through home study. One of my favourite tv progs? Time Team of course!! Thanks folks....