Augustus Caesar

Just a quick reference to this issue... as a techie I have seen this a few times and experienced it myself. It may be one of a couple things... depending upon individual systems. It can be your browser security settings that are not set properly whether IE (any version) or Firefox. More often it is an issue with the 'installer'. Check the bar at the top of your browser and ensure it asks you to INSTALL the add-on and not just run it. The latter will require the same response every time you visit a different site or restart your browser or PC/laptop. If you can go direct to Adobe sites and download and install the code directly then do so. For some reason you may also be asked to allow an Active-X control to be run on your systems not once but twice during the same install. It affects several browsers so don't feel left out if you use just one! Remember too that you should install this add-on for EACH browser you use and not just hope that installing it to IE, for example, will get it to work in, say, Opera!

Once again it has to be Hadrian's Wall for me. I absolutely love this monument no matter how small the volume of Wall is visible or how great. It was a magnificent piece of engineering taking just six years to 'complete' - imagine doing that these days? Not a chance!! The last fort I visited with my good lady wife was Cilurnum (Chesters) although previously on the same day we visited Housesteads. They are both magnificent sites in their own right but one thing that disappointed me at both was the overgrown grass in the middle of each fort. It was deliberately allowed to grow and had 'walkways' through it to certain parts of fort. When I asked one of the staff at Housesteads the answer was one of an official stance in that it was to allow the wildlife back into the forts in terms of nesting birds and small rodents. What?!?!?!? My stock answer to that was that there is a large open space around the whole Wall where this already happens so why inside a national treasure? The last repponse was 'that this is experimental'. Noooo waaayyyyy I wanted to say in a low dulcet tone but I held back... so my response was to say that money was being saved or that the grass cutter had broken down. On a serious note this does nothing to bring the visitor in and only spoils what many visitors have been used to or been told to expect. The sooner it gets back to its normal look the better. Apart from that oddity I say go visit at your earliest - you will not be disappointed.

After a while 'off' I have come back to read through the replies etc to this topic. Some good site suggestions have arisen. The last one at Chester is a very good one - my wife and I were about to go there a couple of years back but had to cancel for family reasons. There is plenty to see and do apparently. Other sites, of course, are well worth looking at but travel is important as stated before. Logistics, if sorted out, can mean a very healthily orgnised meet so keep the suggestions coming. Financially some might struggle (as we are unfortunately) but suggestions may even be carried to 2011 so keep 'em coming. NN - I'll be sending a PM so keep your eyes peeled.

That sounds good WW. It means if they are willing to transport folk from site to site if need be then that removes a lot of hassle. Good idea about getting Andrew and even his good lady wife along if we can and, of course, Pertinax who has been busy elsewhere. If we did the south though would you be able to come up with an itinerary and times allocated for 'talks'? What is the feeling about Lincoln everyone? Whichever venue it is the later in the year is better for us - around July or September. That does not mean the dates are fixed... it is for you all to agree where maximum attendance can occur. Keep the ideas coming....

And what bus would that be Caldrail? Er..... oh yeah... that one!!!! Great fun though... and I remember you lapping up the view from a Sweeney style chasing cab!! Excellent site suggestions... keep 'em coming...

Aha... it's good to see you back WW. Hope all is well and the study takes off for you... OK... it seems Lincoln is still a good shout but whether an Easter trip is good for us financially is another thing. We will do our best. Of course, trying to get two trips in one year may not be easy for any overseas members wanting to come over. Anyway, I am sure we will work something out. London? Well, there is a fair few things around the southern region that can be visited and I know you, WW, mentioned Fishbourne Palace when we were all in York. Would that be a possibility? I do not remember if you said you had been before so there's a question for you... have you? Lincoln - up north? Certainly not. Ghost you are correct. Even Manchester is not 'up north' as the Londoners tend to think. (My mother was a Londoner before some have a dig at me!!). You need to be nearer Hartlepool to class anything from there as 'up north'. Us Geordies are fiercely proud of being northerners but a true Geordie is from Newcastle and nowhere else. Anyway, I have nothing against other regions - far from it - I like to hear different dialects and meet folk from different regions. Our local 'enemy' if you like are those called the mackems. Work that one out!! Come back with some thoughts WW on a southern venue and we'll see if one or both (Lincoln or south) are taken up.

I must admit I do agree with you on this NN so my vote is for Lincoln.... I've been there twice since the [utterly fantastic] Hadrian Exhibition, and still I forget to mention it! I think my memory isn't what it was. I'll tell you something else as well . . my memory isn't what it was. Ahhh..... the Hadrian Exhibition... absolutely awesome!! Doubt we'll see that again in our lifetime but I hope so... I'd go back tomorrow!!

London has a few more bits dotted about but it takes a fair walk between each one. However, there are other bits where the public are not allowed to enter but which could be opened up for a small party I hear. Just how true that is I do not know. One suspects that this may be for paid private viewing or TV/documentary filming etc. I have tried to visit as much of Roman London as I could but it isn't easy to find info on these places. So help from anothe member may be useful here. If memory serves me correctly there is a part of a wall with medieval wall built on top near the London Gaol museum which is near to the Golden Hind??? There is only a small section to see but you know it is Roman because of its structure as opposed to the later medieval. The London Museum has a very good Roman collection but is smaller than that of the British Museum which has a lot of the marble heads on show for example as well as plenty other items. The Vindolanda Tablets are there too but with a lottery bid that has just been won the Tablets will return to Vindolanda within two years from now. The former museum has a section of wall to see outside and also a Roman head of a woman which was reconstructed from a skull for a TV documentary a few years back. It has a wooden bucket system for the collection of water from a well and a few decent models etc showing Londinium as it may have been in Roman times. This museum is also being updated with new sections from last year and with more Roman stuff being put on display by next year I believe. The good things about London are the transport, food and drink and places to stay. You will find something you will be satisfied with without a doubt. Whether or not members would choose this as a place to visit though is up to them. We shall wait and see what they come up with...

Hi Ghost We got to Houseteads and Vindolanda as well as Corbridge plus one or two sites local to the eastern end of the Wall. It was a tight itinerary but it worked extremely well. I would have to consider the terrain when looking at places to visit as some members may not be up to the hill walking and steepish clims at some areas. I tested my wife, Hadriana (cool name huh?), at The Wall and she just about managed it although she found it tough. The Augusta apparently found Housestead a little tough too so we definately have to be careful. Timings would be kept quite tight too depending on our mode of travel along the Wall and our starting points. All that assumes a Meet on the Wall though which is by no means certain as members may wish to do Lincoln or even another area. I won't mind which. I merely state I am prepared to do another Wall trip if the majority wish it. The Antonine Wall is virtually all gone except for areas of mounds where the Wall once stood. It was built of turf and tmbe originally and apparently some of the best areas are around Falkirk way or at least close to it. I cannot vouch too strongly for that having not been up there but I hve it from locals and my brother who did visit that this was the case. Take a look in Hadrian's Wall by Brian Dobson and David Breeze to see what still stands. It is a very detailed book as you know but it has a full section dedicated to that Wall. Come on everyone... where's your ideas?

Rome would be a great idea but it depends upon finances for me as it would for others undoubtedly. If you wish to organise that as a seperate meeting to that of the UK ones then do go ahead. I think it is important to keep the UK trips alive for at least the forseable future and if they prove successful they should be an annual event as was agreed on our first meeting. So, yes, if folk wish to go to Rome then go for it but please do not confuse it with the original UK Meets.

OK everyone... here goes... Because the Meet for 2009 did not go ahead due to lack of numbers and illness as wll as the credit crunch I have decided to open up this new topic for 2010. The venue chosen for 2009 was Lincoln and a set itinerary was almost in place and this can easily be finalised. However, we need to decide upon dates and whether we should attend in April or any month through to September. We should allow for dates that would maximise attendance and give everyone a good chance of getting there. If anyone has a different idea as opposed to Lincoln feel free to drop that in here but do bare in mind we are looking for places that are affordable, easy to get to and they should have minimal travelling to the sites chosen. So, now it is over to you once again. Maybe with the crunch seemingly getting out of the way a tad it may help us all a bit more. Fire away.....

Hi NN We are both sorry to hear about your mum and hope she is fine now. It seems you have had a torrid time of it lately and again we hope all is OK. As for the Meet we are gutted that it didn't finally go ahead. For the last Meet we had five of us but it still went very well and was fun packed. OK... so Lincoln is still a good bet for the Meet when it does go ahead but it may be better now to leave it until maybe April at the earliest to give people a chance to sort out finances and plans maybe. At least if this IS the chosen venue we can begin to plan that bit earlier too. I think it may be better if I should open a thread for 2010 so we can leave this one closed. I will leave the closing to you NN as you can do that with being a superior Roman and all that!!! Of course it goes without saying that thanks must go to you for all your efforts with this Meet. Thanks mate!!

There is one particular episope that strikes me as being particularly nasty... and that is one in which the Emperor Caligula plays one of his most wicked cards in his short tenure as Emperor. He took his armies to the shores in great anticipation of a huge invasion of foreign lands only to play his matercard and turn all his might and anger toward Neptune. To take on this awesome task and to defeat him was an amazing feat and showed just what a brilliant leader of his troops Claigula was. To rub it in even further upon Neptune's defeat Caligula got his armies to collect thousands of Neptune's 'soldiers' (sea-shells for the uninitiated) and present them to the Senate upon his return thus creating a militarial masterstroke. Now, I know I poke fun at Caligula here, but to him this was real. So does it count as particularly evil? I mean, really, in regard to his troops and generals who faithfully followed him and no doubt were as sick as pigs when he set them home with all his 'booty'.....

It's now a good few days since this Meet would have ended. However, I am unsure as to whether it actually happened. I do hope it did go ahead but, if not, then maybe not enough members committed. However, if the meeting actaully found fruition with five or six who confirmed, or whatever number, will we see some reporting of said meeting here? Please let us know....

Information for all concerned with the UK Meet for 2009 in Lincoln.... My wife and I will be unable to get to Lincoln after all for this year's meet. This is a devastating blow to us as we obviously look forward to these things each year. After I was made redundant because of this credit crunch (?!?) we had the added indignity of the tax office messing up our working tax credit claim and overpaying us. They want it back as soon as which has stumped us. However, with the train fares costing around

Thanks Ghost for the copy of the itinerary. I will run it through with NN and if any suggestions are necessary we will let you know. For others - I am able to contact Ghost if necessary during his break so if any questions do arise for any reason please fire away. The itinerary should be no later than 8th August hopefully, if not sooner, and certainly within a day or two outside of the date stated.

count me in. PM's going out to all who have shown an interest. Excellent Neil Got your PM in answer to my request and thanks for going ahead with it as stated above. Appreciate it hugely!

Great news Caldrail!! Money is extremely tight for us at the moment but we will do our level best to get there. Wouldn't want to miss meeting our pals!!! Hopefully more will come too... where are you all??????

If we can get there I am positive we can get the HI hotel on a Co-operative deal for us at

Hi GofC You could drop me a personal message via the profile and link contained within if a meeting on Aug 1 takes your fancy. It may depend upon my sport and whether I get to a final or not but that will be known this coming Saturday when I play a semi final. Let me know your approx times etc and we can go from there. And so to Lincoln etc. It seems it is taking over from St Albans so if the majority want to go to Lincoln then so be it. The date of the weekend of Sept 26 as Ghost mentions above is OK with him and NN seems fine with that. Is that OK with everyone else who expresses a wish to attend? So, going on that data, shall we pencil in Lincoln for 25th to 27th September 2009? Hotels won't suit all due to cost and one B&B to hold us all is not so important as being able to get together early Saturday and Sunday to set the day off sharp. If a B&B has a bar then good but pubs can be found easily although it must be remebered that weekends can be busy. If we all agree that Lincoln is the choice then we need to have an itinerary and maybe one or two folk can do a talk as is the tradition form the previous two years. Only stipulation is that the talk must be exlusively Roman. Ghost may help out here if Lincoln is known to him (Ghost?). Talks are usually twenty minutes or so and can be less but not more as this can eat time easily when more than one talk is given. Can we have some volunteers please? Itinerary usually sees an early start to the day with visits to sites, snack, talks etc and, about closing time for sites, a trip to an eatery for a very huge meal at massive cost to the English Treasury (oh well, it was a nice thought!!) - OK, a modest meal and then to a pub to discuss the day and all things Roman. Friday is usually a day for meeting up with each other and heading off for a drink at night to ready ourselves for the next two days. Sunday, folk may leave early if they have to but the day can be expanded to include more sites if required by anyone with departures in the evening. OK... any thoughts anyone?

As stated in the thread started by GhostofClayton (in which I have asked members to keep to this thread for the UK Meet for 2009) he is doing a tour of Roman Lincoln. This for me would depend upon the dates in September - they would need to be 25th to 27th to make it viable in terms of costs as I now have to be careful after losing my job in IT because of this credit crunch malarky. Northern Neil (hello mate - hope you're in good spirit! (and I don't mean whisky!!!)) PM'd me (as he has others no doubt) about this possible venue but it does depend on the dates above and whether all members who wish to attend can do those dates or others if agreed. Verulamium was, of course, mooted as a possible venue and maybe anyone who intends going along to any that is chosen should let their feelings be known here as soon as possible. Remember that rooms need to be booked etc and train journeys planned so the earlier the better for arrangements to be made. Anyone getting PM's from NN should respond asap please and possibly make their choice of venue and dates known here. We would probably go with the majority or if split the best choice made by our experienced members. I will do my best to attend wherever but cannot at this stage guarantee attendance but don't stop the meet because of that. Post your replies quickly so an informed choice can be made. AC

Hi all This meeting has been on hold for as long as I remember!! Unfortunately I was laid off from my IT job after the company I worked for lost contracts through this supposed credit crunch and I have been struggling through really. However, could we keep the posts on this thread to the original thread begun a while back? It will be easier because confusion may be caused by having arrangements made on one and the other being looked at for those details etc... The original thread is here... http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9286&st=30 I will continue my thoughts over there... PLEASE KEEP POSTS TO THAT THREAD... THANKS! AC

There are a lot of misconceptions here about the Wall and Vallum and what their purposes were. Walking the Wall and Vallum today gives no real understanding of what they were about unless you study the correct texts and not those guessing at what went on from its inception to demise. If you consider why the Vallum was ever in place to the south of the Wall then you must ask what was going on to the north and south when Hadrian gave the order to build his frontier. The initial defense line, as stated earlier, was the Stanegate which ran to the south of where the Wall is now. This was merely a road for military purposes and of course the distribution and supply of goods to the frontier line. Evidence on the Vindolanda tablets states, or at least suggests, these roads were not brilliant. When Hadrian was made Emperor he decided no more expansion of the Empire was needed and built a frontier wall across Europe too. This is an extension of Hadrian's Wall of sorts and has been documented well. The Wall itself in England was built along the area that gave the most natural defence line possible in order to keep out the tribes to the north who were not pro Roman and to stop the non pro Roman tribes to the south from escaping north. This is perfectly logical. Stopping tribes collaborating would be essential to the Romans. Hadrian designated the Wall as a frontier that signified his Empire would not expand further and was to have signalled as such to the northern tribes both here and Europe etc. There was no need for a ditch in some places north of the Wall for obvious reasons - like the fact that a sheer drop on some cliff faces where the Wall presented itself (Housesteads for example) made it pointless. The ditch, or Vallum, to the south varied in distances from the Wall simply because of the terrain. There was no risk to the Wall as far as collapse was concerned as stated in other posts apart from natural erosion over time. The ground was solid and firm in the greater context and only at Segedunum was there real collapse on more than one occasion. This was, again stated prior, just to the west of the fort and recent excavations show this well. The Wall was built over a shallow stream and reused stone is plainly visible where repairs were required. A simple conversation with then curator Bill Griffiths gave me the story here. This was during a personal tour of Segedunum a few years ago and as I live only a couple of minutes walk away from it I was always there asking questions and got heavily involved both on staff and as a volunteer. Quite a significant observation has been missed too in that no-one was allowed access directly to the areas between the north ditch and Wall nor the Vallum to the south and the Wall. Any gateways on the Vallum were standalone gateways that gave the only access between the Wall and Vallum and this was either to the obvious troops or those trading north and south of the Wall. Taxes were collected at selected gates (on the Wall) along the way which then allowed the frontier to become a 'border control' if you like. There was no pallisade along the Vallum. This was pointless and not required. Gates at certain points were manned but only because access, as I have already said, was very restricted. A classic example of this gateway is still visible at Benwell (Condercum) where the Vallum itself is still shown too but not at its original depth. Some of the stone working at the north of this site is Victorian garden terracing from when they turned that area into a park so the levels look raised. So be careful if you look at it and attempt to interpret it. This site was part of the meet in 2008 that I organised along with the Temple of Mithras nearby. As for the Wall being attacked... there is absolutely NO evidence at all that the Wall ever was attacked. The forts were a different matter especially along the Stanegate before the Wall was built. As for the north side of the Wall and its ditches there is one small thing that has definitely been omitted here. Where the lay of the land allowed there was an extra defensive barrier between the Wall and north ditch. This was the cippi defences and has been proven especially on the eastern stretches of the Wall. Visible evidence I have seen of this was at Segedunum (where a reconstruction lies over the original) and on Shields Road, Byker, between Newcastle and Wallsend. The latter came as part of the discovery for the first time of the original line of the Wall between Pons Aelius and Segedunum (Newcastle and Wallsend). It has been noted that this form of defense was almost certainly deployed along the length of the Wall where the threat of attack was greater. So to answer the thought that something else lay between the Wall and north ditch - well, this was it. The defences were made up of thick posts laid a couple of feet apart in a staight line and the second row would be laid in front of but diagonally to the first line. There were sevral rows of posts and these would be intertwined with branches from thorn bushes and these thorns were extremely sharp and compacted as they were wound between all the posts. This is the Roman equivalent of barbed wire. It is also certain that the Wall was actually plastered and painted along its entirety. This may sound strange to some but it is proven as wall plaster has been found at Segedunum and other places along the Wall. Just how intricate the pattern may have been (red brick lines to mimmick bricks have been suggested) or indeed if it was just plain white is yet to be attested but the fact remains it was plastered and painted almost without doubt on both sides. A reconstructed part of the Wall at Segedunum shows how it may have been done in several stages. As for getting past the Wall... the only way was by sea if you didn't go between Segedunum and Arbeia. To get by that way you would have to cross the Tyne and tackle the troops sent from either fort on the north or south of the River Tyne. Pons Aelius was to have been the first fort on the Wall with the Tyne serving as a natural barrier but approximately three years after the Wall was started in Newcastle it was decided to build an aditional fort at Segedunum. This was to afford a good view between Segedunum and Arbeia and to allow troops to get to any enemy quicker than they might have from Pons Aelius. So you would have to go round the east coast past North and South Shields and the mouth of the Tyne (Tynemouth) or go via the west coast and past all the forts down to Maryport. Hadrian meant to build a barier that was formidable and hard to cross and he did it well. The Vallum and north ditches were not built in any shape or form as drainage ditches even if they do have some evidence of drainage running into them. Their primary functions were as defensive ditches pure and simple and also to control trade. Water no doubt gathered at the base but this would be purely as rainfall but would not hold for long as the soil is not of the consistency to hold it in place for long periods. Why would you want to build a ditch that would be 30 feet deep only to fill it with water or use it as a drain? No sense in that at all. If any of you want to read about the Wall at all then you should read the following... Hadrian's Wall by David Breeze and Brian Dobson, second edition. This is the ipso facto on the Wall and David Breeze is a very nice gentleman who became Patron to the Friends of Segedunum after my personal request to him. However, that is NOT why I mention his book. It is extremely rich in all facts about the Wall and indeed covers the move to the Antonine Wall and how and why it was built too. I hope this has cleared things up.

Camping? Thats an interesting suggestion. Remember we must all bring two wooden stakes to build a palisade, so spades, wickerwork baskets, and bagsee the job of standing there surveying the site. Sorry. Sense of humour got the better of me there. Camping is an idea but more vulnerable to the vagaries of British weather. And I bags the job of overseeing the surveyor - can't have him standing against a spade now can we? Much appreciated Aurelia. The more info we can gather the better the options we have for accommodation etc. Go for it.

Camping NN? Well, that would novel... however, my lady wife does not go for that I'm afraid so it looks unlikely from our point of view. Interesting proposition non-the-less. I await your return and we can certainly PM each other about getting things off the ground. That doesn't stop everyone else making contribs though!!