Moonlapse

The only recommendation I have is Darrell J. Rohl, who indicated that he is knowledgable on the general area in question in the wallmap feedback thread. http://www.unrv.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3413&st=15 Perhaps you can contact him through his site or his forum account...

The Age of the Endless Loop of Repeated History?

I agree. I don't see the pressing need for me to make a decision based on one day of released information. Perhaps if my decision were critical, then certainly decisiveness would be critical. Of course if I was in that position, I'd probably have much more information. I try not to just tune in to my favorite news and just accept their word for it. To me, thats the equivalent of putting your mind to sleep. Perhaps my 'trust no one' sense is flawed common sense, but even while newly released articles shed a little light on the situation, I still find a lack of the fundamental details that most of it is based on. People are too accustomed to accepting a basic explanation without being given specific references. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6081001654.html June in Miami - the 7 men detained by the FBI were not al Qaeda. The leader, Narseal Batiste, gathered this group based on the Moorish Science Temple ideology; a mix of Islam, Judaism and Christianity. These men were from the ghetto area of Miami, Liberty City. Batiste began talking to an arabic-descent shop owner, an FBI informant, about creating a government based on this ideology in the U.S., indicating that he thought al Qaeda could help. The FBI informant introduced Batiste to another FBI informant posing as an al Qaeda operative. Batiste wanted to blow up the Sears Tower, the 'operative' tried to convince the group to target five FBI offices. At least one of the seven has indicated that at this point he was afraid and did not want to go through with any plans. The FBI informant supplied Batiste with a video camera to go film targets with. All 7 are now being idicted on charges of conspiring with al Qaeda to bomb FBI buildings and the Sears Tower. They did not have the means to do so. Do you see how much influence the FBI had in this scenario? If you doubt this, I urge you by all means, to look into it. This is why I 'sit on the fence' and 'avoid the issues' until I'm comfortable with the amount of information I have.

What did I really say about the situation, other than ask questions? I may have made some implications based on personal suspicion, but until more verifiable details of this incident are provided, I'm not going to ignore my curiosity. If the situation turns out to be what it seems, then thats great. If its not, then I'll be glad I didn't just swallow everything fed to me. How many facts do you really know about the situation? Should you accept everything you hear as a fact and place complete trust the people/organizations/affiliations/corporations/states supplying it? As soon as people cease to question media, it can become a tool instead of a service.

I tend to question everything I see in media now. Your points are totally valid, but the more history I read the more I'm disinclined to unquestioningly take things that are this important at face value.

Look at the other things in the news... The giant mess in the Middle East. Considerable evidence that the 9/11 attacks succeeded at the very least due to horrendous incompetence by U.S. authority, some people imply that the U.S. government allowed or even had a hand in it. The U.S. economy is starting to suck. Time to build morale? Remember Miami in June? Bush and Blair are both on vacation? (I sense that Ursus' clicker finger is twitching)

Just be sure not to let the talking heads on the television define your ideas about the incident. Seems a little suspicious to me...

If you like... I did so on the previous set of icons, I didnt realize so many were added by updates. I know it can be tedious for the animations. I'll get around to it eventually, but if you want to, help yourself

These emoticons sure do suck on a brown background. :mummy:

Ergo bibamus!

Pssst... join the club... Wikipedia does contain some valuable stuff, but anything politically related should be taken with a grain of salt.

Well, its been a very interesting discussion. Question everything and stay away from the television. I think I'm done here.

The belief system I'm worried about is the one that considers people to be bits of machinery that fit into the big plan, who need to be tweaked just a bit to make them more efficient for their intended purpose. Regarding traffic laws... piloting a 3,000+ pound vehicle at high speed in public roads is not an individual right. I think this is properly handled as a privilege that can be revoked for consistently doing things that will endanger others, on public roads. I won't get into the inefficiency and costs, though. Private roads and property are a different matter. As far as education goes, its taken over 100 years to get schooling to this point and it may take another 100 to adjust it back to something more intellectual than behavioral. I don't have a problem with keeping school compulsory right now, as long as the government does not have a monopoly. Vouchers look like a good start to me. Prostitution... drugs... these things are far more destructive when prohibited than when they are legalized and monitored for safety. You are right, it is a contradiction. Much much more harm is done to someone by sending them to jail for growing and smoking pot, than to just let them peacefully do so.

Am I correct to assume that there is some support here for Castro, but not for Kadaffi? Re: Somalia. There's oil and natural gas under the ground there, waiting to be taken... Who will get it? They'd better pump it out so we can buy it. Too bad the Conoco, Phillips, Amoco and Chevron concessions haven't been able to go through yet due to fighting.... right? Crap, we need to find some backup oil, where can we get that? The middle East? South America? Damnit, now the Japanese are selling more fuel efficient cars... lets outsource our vehicle manufacturing to China. Uh oh... I need to stay away from these threads, I have other things to do!!!

Well let me put it this way, since that question is not articulate enough. Government is an end only if it is not used to violate rights or to create an affect on behaviours that do not violate rights. Then it becomes a means. Which do you desire more? A government with the authority to make and enforce laws designed to supervise the behaviour and belief of the populace, or a government with the authority to make and enforce laws designed to protect individual rights. Do you want a policeman who is there to protect you, or do you want a policeman who is there to arrest you for violating a law you never agreed to, for a crime with no real victim?

Heres a question for everyone... Which do you desire more? A government as a means to a societal end, or self goverment as an end in itself? Kadaffi is truly a ruthless SOB, but have you really looked at the system of government there?

If you want to praise a successful quasi-socialist state, check out Libya. No, I'm not being sarcastic. I refuse to insult you by getting between your ears. The important thing here is what do you disagree with? What do I disagree with? Heavy handed government, be it in the United States, Cuba, wherever. The 'capitalism' in the United States is anything but true capitalism. The 'democracy' in the United States is anything but true democracy. The liberty... is anything but true liberty. Regardless of that, this is my home and I appreciate the fact that there is still a chance for bloodless change.

Do you think that I disagree with most of what you just said?

The World Health Organization recommends, for statistical purposes, that births under 1000 grams not be included. In the United States, due to multiple births caused by widespread use of fertility drugs, low birth weights are more prevalent. In the United States, due to advancement in medical technology, babies under 1000 grams are often given intensive care even though the survival rate for these births is low. Why does this matter? Because those deaths are included in the staticical data for the U.S. Many other countries automatically consider extremely low birth weight births to be an automatic loss and are not recommended by the WHO for inclusion in statistics.

I said they had the closest thing to a democracy. It was direct and some offices were even filled by lot. As far as censorship goes, I'm positive that you know the difference. The fact that we are able to publicly discuss these things should verify what you already know. The only problem I have with that sort of Athenian democracy is that the people can subject their leaders to exile for 10 years after they find out they dislike him, meaning that they downgrade him to almost a criminal level and take all his money and then just send him to the countryside for 10 friggin years as if he were nothing. I don't think democracy(only to the Greeks, since they created it) even exists, rather a modified form of Republicanism. There are too many holes in the concept that can make it look more like an aristocracy, oligarchy, or even just a mob, you name it. Sure, it had its vulnerabilities. Given the circumstances I think it was amazing. Is ostracism the worst aspect that you can acknowledge? Geez, I wish we had ostracism here in the U.S.... Talk about a real check and balance, politicians at the mercy of the people? Sign me up! The subjection of a politician is nothing compared to the subjection of a whole populace.

I think perhaps Athens had the closest thing to democracy at one point in time. The U.S. is (or was) a Republic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athenian_democracy

From the World CIA Fact Book: Cuba definition: age 15 and over can read and write total population: 97% male: 97.2% female: 96.9% (2003 est.) This is the link: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbo...ields/2103.html I'm really not surprised. Most school systems that are not designed to create dullards usually achieve this kind of result. In 1880, the literacy rate for 15 year olds in the U.S. exceeded 95% with no national compulsory schooling. It took over a century to bring literacy it to its current levels. The problem in Cuba is censorship. BTW, what passes for literacy in those statistics is almost shameful. Do you think the 99% of the 'literate' people here in the United States could make it through some of the masterpiece novels?

Don't make me appeal to the Triumviri!

Learn from history! Don't repeat it!

Sounds interesting, though I haven't seen Sin City yet. I would actually love to see a film adaptation of Gates of Fire.