spittle

My question was based on the Rise and Fall docudrama. Which showed the events as Honorius trying to stall the Visigoths until they lost patience and sacked Rome. It ended with the line "...eight years later the Visigoths found a home in South West France'. The entire programme was very sympathetic towards the 'barbarians' but that seems to be the way the wind blows in the current climate.

There was also a mini-series called The Cleopatra's from around that same time. That too was little more than an excuse for partial nudity, barbaric cruelty and people eating grapes. Rubbish!

Didn't the grant of land in Gaul happen much too late to offset the problems that had been set in motion?

The first of 6 docu-drama's kicks off with Napoleon. It stars Kenneth Cranham and is described as 'big budget'. Future episodes will focus on Richard the Lionheart, Attila the Hun and SPARTACUS. happy viewing.

There is very little THC in the seeds. Plus the wild growing grass of the Russian steppe is Ruderalis (very weak). So smoking the weakest part of the weakest strain of cannabis would not have been a very effective 'high'. The sativa (Light headed and giggle producing) or the Indica (heavy eyed wreck!) are the main ganja's of choice....or so I'm told. Personally I can't stand the stuff. The Gourd (Primative Pipe) is a chillum. Still used all over India by dreadlocked Sadhu's.

Not EVERYONE with ginger hair is ugly!!! julianne Moore (Boogey Nights, Children of Men) is gorgeous! And the actor who played one of the young officers on Band of Brothers was handsome enough. My main argument would be that Henry VIII was HUGE and the guy on The Tudors is roughly the same size as Danny DeVito. When he wrestled the Frech King he was about 6 inch shorter. Which would have made the Gallic Royal about 7ft 3in tall.

Opinions on this film would be appreciated.

Northern English has stayed more true to its germanic roots. thats why a Yorkshiremans pronounciation of 'open' (phonetic - 'op-en') is similar to the german 'Ofen' while down south they have adopted French/Romance influences and it has become 'Ow-pen' In Newcastle they can describe any woman as a 'wife' or 'wifey'. This lack of distinction concerning a womans marital status is another German influence. I also find the Geordie accent has the 'sing-song' rhythm of the Scandinavians. Imagine the chef on The Muppett Show. This is just my own perception and I have no data to connect Geordie to Viking. The books state it is Germanic influence. My Polish friends have no idea where their fellow Poles originate based on accent yet, here in England, when a hoax recording was sent to the police during the Yorkshire Ripper scare of the early 80's, experts were able to narrow the search to 2 HOUSING ESTATES (Not towns or even villages, HOUSING ESTATES!) in Sunderland based purely on the accent of the hoaxer. And finally, in my home town of Barnsley (which has the strongest Yorks accent) I can tell from which village certain speakers come from. In Darton/Mapplewell it is very strong "Tha' usin' t'internet?". Whilst Royston as traces of midlands still due to it being flooded by people from the black country at the beginning of the last century. Can anyone explain the influences in Brummy or Yam? (Birmingham or Dudley). To answer The Augusta's question....I feel reginal accents are very important and add a huge amount to the tapestry of life. Unfortunately they can cause embarrassment and invite certain types of person to prejudge. Just watch television to see how a regional accent is used to convey an instant snapshot of someone's character. Buckingham (The Tudors) has a Yorks accent to point out his lack of guile.

I find the case for child sacrifice the more convincing by far. And in regard to POLYBIUS I would like to point out that absence of proof is not proof of absence. Especially when dealing with materials as fragmentary as classical sources.

I'd be interested to learn how the changes evolved. As I have said before, there is an abrupt harshness to Latin that is more reminiscent of German or Russian to my ear than the sweetly rhythmic Italian or Castilian.

Reading the undigested texts of the ancients in their original form! Thats an understandable ambition. To me the idea of learning a language that is no longer in common usage and written in a different script is quite intimidating but when one considers that the guy who translated the Rosetta Stone learned himself Coptic (from scratch) as part of the process I suppose its an achievable goal. hats off.

In a recent thread M P Cato directed me to a site that was totally in Latin (he stated he could not find the English translation). I was impressed by the idea of him being able to read it. The thought of people speaking it is even more wonderful to me. Not just because it is the ancient language of the Romans but also because I love how it sounds. Despite it being the mother of Italian and Spanish (amongst others) it has a harsh edge that I find more reminiscent of German or Russian. So I started to wonder how many of the forum members spoke Latin, and to what standard? I hope this will be a fairly open thread where contributions will vary from where and why someone learned Latin to maybe someone adding why they learned an alternate language or even what they would like to learn. I hope members will speak their minds.

In the latin it says 'L. Sulla legatus' whereas the translation says 'L. Sylla legate'. Is this, as I suspect, just a typo? I'm sorry for splitting hairs its just the Sulla/Silla/Sylla thing. At the back of RUBICON there is a timeline that states, "89BC: Sulla, canpaigning in Samnium, brings an effective end to the Italian revolt". It would be a real coincidence if Sulla (89BC) and Silla (89AD) had devestated the area but, sometimes, these wierd coincidences do exist and complicate history. thanks for the clarifications.

I was actually quoting part of a Tony Blair speach where he said that 'England is to America what Greece was to Rome' and I feel sure that this perception of evolved influences is shared by the vast majority of people. Roman gave Greek Gods new, Latin names but their religion was esentially a continuation of that of Greece. I am not even sure what about my analogy you find unhelpful but I am interested to find out as I am a beginner to the subject, as my quoting of a Tony Blair speach may have indicated (haha).

I have just recieved a book on Pompeii. Its full of bad English as its the type of cheap puiblication that hawkers sell at tourist sites in the area. On one page it says "...Pompeii and Herculaneum destroyed by eruption of Vesuvius in 79AD.....Stabia completely destroyed by SILLA during his occupation og 89AD and rebuilt only partially" Do you think they mean SULLA in 89BC ? Or was there a SILLA occupying partially rebuilt places within the area devastated by the volcano a decade earlier? I have never heard of him if he existed.

I think I know what you mean. Recently I read that Rome's civilisation was only one among many and that the dark ages started not because Rome fell but because they had wiped out any civilisations they regarded as competition before the fall, hence Rome was the only show in town and it all ended with their downfall. The article went on to imply that Rome had actually done more to depress progress than promote it. I feel much of these theories are due to Eurocentric guilt. Afterall why should we praise the Romans for conquering the world when we can study the ecologically sound tribes of where ever who leave no carbon footprint by walking round bollock naked and eating grubs from behind the bark of tree's? Its fashionable to attempt to turn accepted knowledge upside down by manipulation of the facts. Greece was to Rome what England is to America. Would it be realistic to say that American culture and history was simply an extension of Britain's own history?

"Is this first series just going to be Henry VIII?" According to the TV magazine its just going to be about the early years of Henry VIII. They could have at least given him ginger hair! The best known TUDORS (Henry VIII and Elizabeth) were copper heads. I know Bloody Mary had her Spanish mothers dark hair. What about Henry VII and Edward ? Sam Neil is a great actor but are people really so stupid that they cannot see a person as evil for political intrigues and conniving? Did the film makers really have to overstate the issue by showing the cardinal man handle a fellow Arch-Bishop and threaten him like a school yard bully? Did Sean Pertwee do such a brilliant job of being knifed to death when he played G J Caesar (in the god awful Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire) that he was necessary to the plot? An extra with a non speaking role would have worked just as well. Maybe even a prop for the amount of time involved! I like Sean Pertwee and could have done with him being given a little more dialogue. Did it end up on the cutting room floor to make room for the bare breasted ladies that monopolised the first half of the programme? And the whole thing with Buckingham lacked subtlety. He contorted his face like a belligerent child whenever he was in the same room as his king and told anyone who would listen than he planned a coup! But this was not enough so they had him pour water on Wolsey's shoes ??? I have been looking forward to this. I expected something like the excellent Charles II (Rufus Sewll) or the good, but less accomplished The Virgin Queen. I had hoped it would make up for the mediocre Henry VIII starring Ray Winstone and Helena Bonham Carter which should have been subtitled 'Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Blunderbuss's'.

Lear? Why would it make you think of a jet aeroplane? Only kidding I'm not that stupid. The family values exhibited in this film seem very modern and (italian) Catholic. I know its virtually impossible to undo two millenia of intense Judeo-Christian influence to show attitudes prevalant at the time but they could have tried to go a little deeper than the one dimensional soap opera type relationships that they accepted for their finished product. BTW. In THE GODFATHER Brando, when told of the murder of his eldest son, Sonny, seems to deflate with grief. An almost imperceptible exhaling of breath that speaks volumes. Its so understated yet it works so much more profoundly than O'Toole's immitation of a blow up doll being punctured. O'Toole is too canny an actor not to know that tricks, he's a past master of the art, which makes me believe his carelessness and overacting are his symbolic ways of expressing his contempt for the project. His performance screams 'I am doing as little as possible because i am here for the money'.

As always i clicked 'View New posts' and not one contribution as been added since last nights first episode of the Tudors....and I cannot say I'm surprised! Simply awful! I might not even bother with the remaining nine episodes.

Its pretty obvious that O'Toole did this simply for the paycheck. His acting is uninspired and 'by numbers' and at times he seems to be taking the piss! (See his response to the news of Agrippa's death!).

thanks to one and all. The site that KLINGAN directed me too is an absolute goldmine!

I am ready to take the plunge and attempt to read some of the primary materials. Especially appealing to me is the idea of reading Caesars Commentaries and I would appreciate suggestions on the best English translations or any relevant information. Any and all recomendations will be helpful to me, so please fell free to enthuse at will. My education is virtually non-existant and I enjoy authors such as Tom Holland, Adrian Goldworthy and Richard Holland. The more academic works are a little much for me so please offer suggestions within the scope of these limitations. thanks.

Likewise, P N S, very informative. Thanks.

Hi G P M Its on BBC2 at 9pm. The Tudors and Stuatrs were my first historical love so I wait with baited breath for this to start....

Episode 1 next friday (5th Oct). Rather that the middle aged, ginger bearded and obese Henry VIII that we would all recognise instantly on the High Street, the makers of this show have opted for a 30 year old athletic actor to portray his younger days-when he was considered 'dashing and gallant'. Its already been on American TV so opinions would be helpful. Please add 'SPOILER WARNING' when necessary.