spittle

I never had any Latin lessons (we were lucky if we got Maths and English in the comprehensive I attended!) so I was surprised to hear Caesar being pronounced Kaiser (Passion of the Christ). But it reminded me that both Kaiser and Tzar were derived from Caesar. As for Putin being a Tzar by another name....I thought the Tzars were a hereditary monarchy? Is monarchy the correct term for Emperors who inherit their positions? The Augusta. Have you ever considered attempting a biography of Livia? I feel she deserves one and that you could do her justice. I'm not getting into modern politics. Thats when arguments turn nasty. But I will say that I am earning twice as much since Blair became PM. Now if I could only earn twice as much again so I could afford a one bedroom hovel in the area of town known for brothels and crack dealing.

So, an Empire doesn't necessarily have an Emperor? Can a Republic have an Emperor? I have often seen French History portrayed has Emperor Napoleon's Republic verse King Louis' Monarchy.

"He inherited the Roman Empire. He decided the fate of the World. AUGUSTUS, The First Emperor." The title of the film is dumb (If he was the first emperor how did he inherit an empire?) but it is nothing compared to the actual film. Peter O'Toole plays the elderly Augustus, sharing a palace with his adoring daughter Julia and her twin infant sons. They are a very loving family and Augustus is the nicest Grandad and Dad possible. The Praetorian Guard stand around smiling and the emperor never fails to single out individuals and ask if their son got over the flu or if they had managed to fix the roof of their house.......Are you starting to grasp the type of film this is? The film flashes back to the time when Augustus was Octavian. He arrived in Rome with his buddy Agrippa and they stop a small gang of thugs from raping a beautiful young woman called Livia. Although it is obvious that they are instantly in love with each other Augustus must leave Rome to help his Uncle Julius in Spain. Despite being half dead with an illness he and Agrippa ride to Caesars camp where they are greeted by Caesars sage words "Never show your ill!". So Octavian/Augustus joins in with the entire army (J G Caesar included) digging a ditch.... I'll not go into too much detail, I wouldn't want to spoil it for anyone, but all those history books and contemporary sources were drastically different to the events in this. Just to emphasize how ahead of his time Augie was, he and Agrippa had a very camp scribe (or friend or cook or something, its never very clear) and they defend his rights against nasty homophobic types (such as Cassius and other Caesar assassins -who are most definateley 'baddy's'). But the humour is never far away and they regularly push each other into lakes or rivers or baths or oceans or any source of water. Despite being the most cultured peoples in history the Italians have a way of making Benny Hill look subtle compared to their attempts at humour. O'Toole seems to be taking the p*ss. He either overacts outrageously or becomes as inactive as a statue. He must have known after one page of the script that this was going to be crap but did it for the wad of cash, making sure to do the bare minimum and express his lack of interest as best he could without losing his payday. Rampling does Rampling, again. She's a one trick pony by anyones standards. Te rest of the cast are attractice Italian starlets who probably pleasured the producer for a chance to escape the Italian soap opera that has found reason after reason for her to wonder around in various states of undress, and be pushed into water for comedic value. THIS IS A FIVE STAR FILM. OSCAR NOMINATIONS MUST SURELY BE EXPECTED

Thanks very much, Phil. Instead of typing out Spittle please just ca;; me Paul. Last year BBC2 did "The Other Bollyn Girl" with Richard Harris's son playing Henry VIII. He managed to avoid the usual character faults and portrayed Henry has intelligent, calm and thoughtful. Its worth looking ouut for.

Phil. Please list these plays/shows with as much detail as possible then I can attempt to find them. I'd really appreciate it. Vorenus/Bothwell (Kevin McKidd) also played the Duke of Norfolk in The Virgin Queen. As anyone seen the Civil War (English Civil War) film 'To Kill The King' with Dougray Scott as fairfax, Rupert Everett as King Charles I and Tim Roth as Cromwell? (to be honrst Tim Roth did the only character he can act, Tim Roth!). Despite Charles I generally getting a bad press it always speaks volumes to me that he wore two shirts for his execution to avoid his shivers of cold being mistaken for trembling fear. He must have had stromg belief's, whether they were right or wrong, to die with such dignity. edited for spelling

Fascinating stuff, guys. Popular culture would have us believe that when Caesar first set sail to Britain they didn't know whether to expect three headed monsters or brigadoon type pixies! Almost as though they were at risk of falling off the edge of the world. The facts seem to suggest that Rome had intelligence of Britain long before they visited from Tribes that existed on both sides of the channel and had traded with each other for centuries. And, conversely, Brits must have been aware of this European 'superpower'. Although some articles would have us believe that Caesars arrival in Britain was greeted with as much awe and shock as the Spanish arrival in the New World. (I.E. Return of God like beings). The lead upto Roman and Brits meeting is a subject that I would love to find out more about. Were there factfinders dispatched to Northern Gallic tribes, with known links to this Island? Did the Brit tribes anticipate an attempted Roman invasion by making alliances with neighbouring tribes? Had the Romans been using mutually allied tribes as intermediaries between themselves and Britain to trade goods? (I imagine tin and dogs going east. Wine and luxury goods going west). Are there any books or articles that deal with this area of study?

I use it as one of several criteria but the urge to 'respectfully' dispose of the dead shows a civilised side IMHO.

Those same economic forces are alive and kicking today also. Nothing kickstarts a local economy like a huge building project.

DEAR GOD!!! I'd forgotten about that monstrosity. It had Dr Elizabeth Corday (ER) as Boudica/Boudicea with a West Country 'Bumpkin' accent. I only watched the first 20 minutes or so. I couldn't take any more. Most of these shows are Tudor/Stuart era. One that was very entertaining, despite being hugely inaccurate was 'Gunpowder, Treason and Plot'. In that Mary Queen of Scots and Bothwell were genuinely in love. I'd always read that he kidnapped and raped her?

If you go to the thread 'Before the republic' under the IMPERIUM ROMANARUM forum (REPUBLIC sub forum) there is a whole discussion concerning when it is best to attempt to read the ancient sources. I predicted similar problems (I'm a beginner) to the ones you have just confirmed. I will look out for Pride of Carthage, it sounds good. However I am not too sure about Imperial Governor or any Historical Fiction. There is so much fascinating factual information to take in that I'm not sure I want to read any fiction at all.

57BC. The tribes of Northern Gaul became polarised in alliances that were either for or against Caesar. This was the result of Caesars defeat of the Germanic King Ariovistas, a year before, and the realisation that the Gallic peoples had helped remove the Germans only to have Romans remain permanently.Out of the German frying pan and into the Roman fire. The Belgae tribes had quickly allied into a huge force and equally quickly broken up into serarate tribes again and started to head back to their homes. Caesar accepted hostages and surrender from several of these tribes, after short periods of hostility in some cases. He then went up against the Bellovaci. The Bellovaci put up little resistance and swiftly surrendered. Romes Gallic allies, the Aedui, interceded with Caesar on behalf of the Bellovaci pleading that their two tribes had long standing friendship and the recent hostility of the Bellovaci was blamed on a few Chieftains who saw the Aedui's alliance with Rome has slavery. These men had now fled to Britain and could no longer influence tribal policy * What level of cooperation and communication existed between allied tribes from Britain and the continent? * How long ago had these tribes managed to overcome a sea crossing in order to contact each other? * Any other information that applies to this thread would be appreciated.

We had a thread that started about the Ancient Rome docudrama's but progressed onto other historical mini-series of a non Roman nature. The Virgin Queen (BBC), Elizabeth I (Ch4) and other Elizabeth the First films/shows were discussed but I'd like to hear opinions on HENRY VIII (Ray Winston, Helena Bonham Carter for Granada TV) CHARLES II (Rufus Sewell for BBC) My personal opinion is that Charles II was the best programme of its kind for many years. Far supperior to either of the Elizabeth shows. Everything about this series was quality. The acting, costumes, script..... They have a hard time deciding what events to leave out but I feel they prioritised the reign of this King very well for entertainment purposes. Henry VIII on the other hand was dreadfull! Ray Winston's dumbed down version of Henry was so inappropriate it verged on comedy, unintentionally, in many places. And Helena Bonham Carters 'Girl-power' Ann Bollyn must have been researched from books i have not had access too. If she had acted as brazenly as this in Tudor England she would have been considered little better than a whore. An insane whore.

Quote from Brian DePalma's 'The Untouchables'. Scene setter: A lawyer and Capone crony has just tried to slip an envelope of bribe money into Elliott Ness's (Kevin Costner) hand. Ness calls the rest of his team into his office and throws the envelope at the 'baddy' he then says: "In ancient Rome if a person was found guilty of attempting to bribe a public official he had his NOSE cut off, he was then sowed into a sack with a wild animal and thrown into the river"

The choice of events to depict was a success. We'll all have Emperors or Senators or citizens that we personally wished had been chosen for the film treatment but, generally speaking, I thought NERO, CAESAR, T.GRACCHUS, VESPASIAN/TITAN, CONSTANTINE and (obvious conclusion) FALL OF ROME was a good combination of historical events and characters. But rather than one hour being devoted to six different stories I would have much preferred that one story had six hour long episodes devoted entirely to it. That way the film makers could have tackled the complex relationships that surround and influence any of the charcters they have tried to display to us in less than an hour.

Sulla gets a few mentions in HBO's ROME. 2 spring to mind. 1. After Pullo falls asleep on watch and allows the horses to be stolen Vorenus says: "My father marched with Sulla and I am reduced to being robbed of my horses by children" 2. When Vorenus is arranging the party to launch his business Caesars troops are all over Rome and the caterer says: "I remember when Sulla took the city! Blood! You could have painted houses with it!" To which Vorenus replies. "Caesar is not Sulla".

Back to the top.

What about Mohenjo-Daro (?) a city in todays Pakistan. I have very vague memories of archeaologist's going on about this being the oldest 'city' yet found anywhere. Did I dream this or have others also heard of it?

Is this the one with the Amazon customer review that says the author draws many comparisons between Augustus and George W Bush? Or was that Richard Hollands 'Augustus: Godfather of Europe'? I hope to read a biog of Augustus as soon as I have finished Goldworthy's Caesar (within the next fortnight) so any suggestions, ideally by someone who has read both Everitt and Holland's works would be of great help to me. If another authors work stands out then please refer me to it.

I noticed the Godfather ending instantly! But I have seen that juxtaposition of religious ritual, cutting to scenes of graphic violence on a dozen different films/shows since Coppola's original. You would think that a director would be ashamed to use such blatant pieces of other peoples idea's. As for the rest of the programme I was deeply disappointed, again.

I seem to have opened a can of worms! How does one define 'civilisation'? In my mind I'm thinking of written language (but the Duids passeddown knowledge verbally and they were civilised so whats to say that an older civilisation, now completely forgotten, didn't have a similar method?). I'm also thinking of funeral ceremonies (belief in an afterlife/primitive religion) and architecture/monuments (an attempt for immortality by leaving evidense of their culture - similar to the Egyptian pyramids). Using these guidelines is Sumer still the opinion of the forum? If so what historical date are we talking about?

On the death of Augustus, when the legions in Pannonia and, more importantly, Germania started to revolt against Tiberius in favour of Germanicus as their Emperor, what chance would this rebellion have had if Germanicus had actually thrown in his full support and marched on Rome in an attempted coup?

To attempt to study civilisation from its very beginnings where would you start?

In the film Spartacus (which I know is almost entirely fictional) he had a British slave as his 'significant other'. Would any Brits of any description actually have been in Rome, or Roman occupied area's, before Caesar had even visited us. Or was it during Claudius' rule, when the island was colonised, that Brits first ended up within the Roman empire?

I remember a documentary that discussed a tablet of ancient origin, I cannot remember the actual details but the jist of the sentiment was something like "Children no longer respect the authority of their parents and each generation grows worse than the last. The world is going mad and there seems to be no way of reversing the trend" It was over 4000 thousand years old and could be the griping of middle aged people anywhere on earth today.