spittle

As anyone mentioned Eric Claptopn yet? I love the fact that Something In The Way by George Harrison and Clapton's Wonderful Tonight (or was it Layla?) were both inspired by the same woman.

Chango Reinhardt (sp?) Gypsy-spanish sound. lost fingers in a fire and had to adapt a new style which is genius. as for all the 'rock gods' (middle aged men with long hair playing blistering solo's in an attempt to escape the ageing process) i can do without them.

Could I have the book 'Pompey the Great', please? Sorry I answered your personal message this way but my mouse is damaged and it would have taken me another 25 minutes just to 'steer' the God dang thing! When i entered this contest I wanted either POMPEY or THE ENEMIES OF ROME book. As I had won a prize in the last it seemed remote I would win in this. Then when I came 6th (of 7) I was sure the remaining prizes were going to be things I had little interest in. Thanks for proving me wrong. Merry Christmas, Paul Spittle.

Yeah! Sounds just like the guys down the Catholic club! I suppose when it came to incest the sources had to exaggerate just to eclipse Claudius. Married to his brothers daughter who'd already been sleeping with her darling brother, Caligula. (or is that a myth?) Agrippa as a reference? Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa?

I think I'll wait too. Isn't it a rip-off of the HK movie 'Internal Affairs'? Yes, it is. I got a bootleg copy a few weeks ago and its a good film. Not brilliant but worth buying on disc.

I'm about to complete Holland's 'Augustus' and I could not decide which Tiberius biog to buy so I ordered 'The Sons of Caesar' by Matyszac and Morgans '69AD: The Year of Four Emperors'. I'll return to individual biogs after wetting my appetite further with these two general accounts. In the bibliography of Augustus the book 'Women and politics in ancient Rome' by Richard A Bauman made me think of your thread and, despite being 99% sure you are aware of the title, I thought I would mention it to you. It sounds like your cup orf tea. As for Augustus I am more impreessed in his luck than his skill and I am learning that Livia has been given a reputation she really doesn't deserve. As a young fugitive she singed her hair running through a burning wood with the baby Tiberius clutched to her breast.

Are you sure it was ROME and not ROAM, the series about the aborigine who goes walkabout in the outback with his digeridoo, mate? Is there much interest in Ancient History in Western Australia? When I was in Sydney (which I know is the other side) the topics of conversation were Cricket, rugby, lager (VB), vegemite and cricket. I know I said cricket twice-it was very popular.

How were Sulla, Marius and Cinna viewed by later generations of Romans? It could be a few generations later when they had first been dead long enough to ensure no living person had actual recollection (mid Julio-Claudians) or towards the end of the Empire....A long time. How were they celebrated/reviled?

So, P.Clodius, your saying the Cato thing never happened? I never said the events took place at the same time. I simply questioned the characters of men who are regarded as a group. I mentioned my source, R.Holland. Expand your argument. My 9 yr old son can manage more than a facile comment and a contradiction (!)

You are assuming spittle that Caesar has been viewed throughout history as bad. I, personally don't know he might really have been. But if thats true then why were German Emperors known as Kaisar why did the Russians have czars (both titles a direct derivitive of Caesar) and why is Brutus in the lowest pit of Hell in Dante's Inferno? No I am not. Often Caesar and Brutus are portrayed has equally honourable but I feel Caesar would do anything to help his friends or crush his enemies whereas Brutus, et al, just wanted to enrich their tiny, over wealthy group by any means and justify it as 'for the Republic'. Like Democracy today the Republic could be very open to interpretation.

Was Cicero refound at some point or has he been a constant source throughout history? How could Cicero be considered 'righteous'? He was manipulative, coniving, decietful and two-faced!

Much of what we know of the later Republic seems to have come from Cicero. But his letters are all written with the intention of being sent to many different people so how have we kept/found them? It must be more than coincidence that so many of his letters have turned up? Especially when one considers how much has been lost and we only know of due to reference scraps in other peoples work... So why have Cicero's works survived whilst others works are lost forever?

According to Richard Holland (Augustus: Godfather of Europe) Cassius and Brutus stayed in the east with 17 Legions whilst Italy was torn apart by the fighting between Antony, Octavian, Generals representing the Senate and Optimates. Despite 17 Legions being more than adequate to win victory. So what were they doing in the east that was so important? They were taxing the locals so heavily that families were having to sell their children into slavery to avoid all of them meeting the same fate due to an inability to pay their assessments. The noble Brutus seems to have forgotten just how noble he was at this time. And Cato didn't do everything with a selfless devotion to the Republic. He divorced his wife so she could marry his old and wealthy friend then remarried her, once she was widowed with a healthy inheritance! Now thats honourable! The pimp! So how have these men ended up with reputations as the last honourable Republicans with total, and selfless, devotion to the version of Rome they believed in? In my limited knowledge of the characters involved Caesar was far more honourable. Although I must admit that Cassius deserves recognition as one of the greatest military minds of his age. DISCUSS....?

Has anyone read Pat Southern's 'Mark Antony'? If so, what was your opinion? If this title is not one that you have read but you have read others by this author please share your views. Thanks.

I'll try to write a mini-biog of Servilia but I'd like to see someone else's attempt first to 'inspire' me (give me a clue where to start!). This could turn into a group effort? Quote from AUGUSTUS: Godfather of Europe by Richard Holland Scene setter. Its days after Caesars assassination and the conspirators, Cicero and a few others are at Servilia's. Mark Antony has offered Cassius and Brutus important but junior positions on the Corn Commision as a way of giving them a honourable reason to get far away from Rome....while things settle down. "...Cicero launched into a speach about how, on the Ides, Brutus and Cassius should have summoned the Senate after the assassination and taken charge of the Republic before Antony emerged from his hiding place. Servilia, angry at at this implied criticism of her son and son-in-law exploded 'Well I'll be...! I never heard such stuff!' The great orator suddenly lost his voice. 'I held myself back' he wrote later. Servilia wound up the debate, having had quite enough of Cicero's advice. She announced imperiously that she would arrange for the two appointments to the Corn Commision to be excised from the Senate's resolution. Nobody present seems to have doubted that this was within her power and influence to achieve" In that one paragraph Servilia is shown as being the most influential person in the meeting despite being with Cassius, Brutus AND Cicero! Mark Antony had virtually absolute power in Rome at this time yet everyone believed she could influence the Senate to go against his wishes and remove appointments to the Corn Commision. And she talked to Cicero as though he were an idiotic pleb and he took it!

What fascinates me about Servilia (and, I guess other Roman women were similar) was that she managed to amass huge power by keeping a foot in both camps. In fact she had a bit of herself in many spheres of influence. They may not have been able to gain power by the 'direct' path but that didn't stop women like Servilia. As for Porcia how does one kill themselves by inhaling fumes from hot coals? It sounds like a wierd way to dispatch ones self. Why don't you get the ball rolling, Gail? A mini biog of Livia putting the record straight for all the I, Claudius viewers (like myself)? If Livia had died young she would be more well known than Cleopatra but she wasn't tragic enough. Too successful by far!

During the dark ages entire civilisations were forgotten not to be rediscovered until the renaissance. the flame of knowledge was kept barely lit by monastic communities in Ireland and the early Muslims so its not surprising that personal family histories were discontinued. When the majority of people degenerate into illiterate, subsistance farmers the importance of ancestral deeds becomes none existent. A person without knowledge, culture or self awareness is little more than an animal and no-one would expect primates or parrots or even dolphins to care about anything other than staying alive one day at a time. However, Italians with the surname Gotti or Goti are said to be descendants of the Goths. I have seen the Italian surname Saraceni which must be connected to the Saracens..... Sicily has had so many occupying overlords that names are really the only way to hazard a guess at the distant origins of the people.

Since when did a Roman relinquish power in order to fully enjoy depravity? Its the power that fully enables it. I see Sulla as a Boris Yeltsin who just wanted to stay drunk.

I was thinking of a special forces type recovery action when I mentioned them possibly being taken to the east and hidden. But Parthia was huge. From the Euphrates to India (?)

I asked where I could view a Roman Eagle standard in a previous thread and had the disappointing reply that none were known to exist. Its a great shame. I know exactly where your coming from with the swords. If I ever win the lottery I'm straight to Tokyo for an antique Samurai blade.

After Crassus lost the Eagles at Carrhae they were in the possession of the Parthians for decades. What did they do with them? Did they take them to the Eastern edge of their lands (furthest away from Roman provinces) and hide them? Or did they display them in a similar fashion to the spoils of war in Roman triumphs? Maybe none of the above.... Does anyone know?

I have traced one branch of my family tree to the 13th Century. (Which I think is quite stunning for a middle class American!) Very impressive! I'v got as far back as the late 1800's on my paternal side and I know that my family surname 'Spittle' comes from the old English word for an Inn keeper or Spittler. Hospitality has the same root origin. I am also reasonably sure that we have a connection to the French Protestants (Huguenots) that escaped Catherine DeMedici's attempted genocide.

In Goldworthy's 'Caesar' there is a little information concerning the citizens reactions to the death of Pompey Magnus. Some would not believe he was dead until his signet ring was displayed to them.... It started me thinking about how much I would appreciate owning (or even just viewing) this unique piece of jewellery that is attached to this giant of history. A tangible connection to the momentous events that shaped our world over two thousand years ago. Just to hold it and KNOW it had once graced Pompey's very own hand! What object/objects would you most like to have? Jewellery, Statues, Crowns, Weapons...... Anything goes on this one. Its funny how some things are beyond price to the right person. The little black dress that Audrey Hepburn wore in 'Breakfast at Tiffany's' sold at auction for

It occurs to me that cannabis is slowly being legalised whilst tobacco is slowly being criminalised. Will the day arrive when the police arrest people for the tobacco in their joints rather than the hashish? Or, even more bizarely, dealers get arrested for using imperial weights and measures when they sell an undercover copper a half ounce (rather than 14 grams) of the old red Leb! But I do support the ban despite being a smoker. I watched my grandad die of lung cancer and would not want to contribute to anyone developing that. Although my families history of working down coalmines seems to have more to do with resp[iratory illness than smoking....

I watched a documentary where an aristocrat was discussing his ancestors coming over with the Normans to England in the 12th Century. He went on to mention their earlier history back to the age of William the Conqueror. It made me wonder how far back certain families know their ancestral tree's? Does anyone know of families who can match or better this?