Gini

eifrejnn mray ngii Full name but if you want to leave out the middle is the mray Thanks

Michael Grant's history of Rome is a good source. when Gaiseric invaded rome it was intially at the request of the late assasinated emperor's widow She lived to regret this! The only "army" to confront Gaiseric was Pope Leo! So much for the Roman army which incidentally was reputed to be 250,000 but of poor quality troops and not mobilised from what I gather - lots of pay disputes, loyalty issues

Tsk tsk!! Africa is poor for a multiplicity of reasons - I merely mentioned 1 and puppet (politically useful) governments is another way. The info is commo knowledge My contry actually gives quite a lot of aid the entire economy of a few very small states as well as medical and peacekeeping but there is no business profit involved. Abd do exactly what we say had othing to save from beingnuked - it was just bully boy stuff As I said American bigbusiness has a lot to answer for.

Haven't read all the recent posts but I will add a couple of things If you are happy with your own system - great!! The US started off with a good system I cannot beleive that corruption is rare with all that is known about company corrruption and its hold over government. The bully boy tactics that the US has tried with my own country is far from commendable - do exactly as we say or we will wreck your economy etc etc. sure America enjoys a good standard of living - but also remember if it paid back what it owed it wouldn't!! While other countires try to repay their debts America doesn't bother as who can make it pay so the debt just mounts and mounts All the fanfare of what America gives out in aid too - also remember that for every $1 of aid that America gives to Africa it takes $8 out. No wonder Africa is poor! The US system is fine- it's just that big business has sordied it all and has a lot more say than it should

I agree The armies of Aaric and Geisiric for ex were estimated at 20,000 and up to 40,000 respectively yet there were at the same time 250,000 Roman soldiers - but disputes with pay etc, taxation oppressed subjects meat that there was NO army to defend Rome against Geiseric In fact the only to meet him was pope Leo. Rome could have well dealt to the barbarians but the people were tired of corruption and extortion and the fervent patriotism of yesteryear was gone

I'd love to paticipate!! I've only read First Man in Rome of these books but as I've loaned it out somewhere I'd love any of the books

Don't know much about this topic but I do recall some writing by a roman villa owner - no one famous in which he talked about the pleasure he had from his little (fluffy-type) dog Perhaps this type came later

But Ginevra does your linguistic background advantage more than your native language? Latin aside, certainly i didn't come across many northern Italians who spoke much French at all -

I agree Lake Como is a wonderful place, i spent a few days there a couple of years ago, i was on a football trip to watch Leeds utd v AC Milan, our hotel in Milan had been double booked so we were out on the street, after hours of being turned back from other fully booked hotels we were told to try Como, when we finally arrived it was closing in on mid night and most places were closed apart from one bar near the train station, the very kind lady sorted us all out (about 10 of us) with drinks and bar snacks while she spent about 1/2hr ringing round hotels trying to find us a bed for the night which she suceeded in doing! We spent the next four days in Como and had a fantastic time, we were made very welcome and the glasses were always kept full! :beer: :drunk: My memories are of a wonderful island in the centre of the lovely lake with a fantastic villa and taking my family around the town shoppng and invariably ending up in the the back roooms of the shops partying with the owners instead.

Getting back to this original point, I regret that I do not have the linguistic credentials of some of my friends here. I am, however, a French speaker. Whilst acknowledging that there is a strong Latin heritage with respect to French (words such as 'Fenetre' for instance) I would agree with the above comment - if it had been made with respect to French. A sound heritage yes, but somewhat evolved from the original. I must however disagree with the above comment with respect to Italian. Having ditched France as a holiday venue for the time being and travelled recently in Italy, I must say that I find that, far from being 'very different' to Latin, I am amazed how little modern Italian has actually evolved from the original Latin. Regarding Modern Italians versus methodical Romans, this is a purely subjective view based on nothing more than trends arising from historical political situations. A hundred years ago, the British had an empire which covered much of the globe. Now it doesn't, and its government is prepared to render it a protectorate of the US - however, its people remain the same. I find a lot of similarity with the Latin-Romancelanguages northern Nell but speaking Italian does not make me understand Latin - I refer you to an earlier comparison by docoflove which sets out a lot of differences. Spanish now is a different matter and even French is advantaged by Italian. The languages sound very different also- there is an earlier post that refers to the clanking sound of Latin compared to the flowing sound of Italian. I have a gut feeling (how scientific!!) that the general poplace were more Italian like however. I find it surprising that there document mentioned a few posts earlier around 900 is understandable to me 1200 years later - but it is very different to Latin!1 What coused the change - did the polulation speak a different dialect to the formal language - etc? The subjective view is related to the achievments and behaviour of the civilisation which is well recorded and does make the Romans appear different. and we are talking about a much larger time froma that 100 years. The mystery remains and it is fascinating

I'm from Wellington New Zealand with Italian background (my father) though I have lived in Italy for a while mainly near Milan. Lake Como is a wonderful spot Ginevra

Placito Capuano! Thank you for that pearl Not being a historical linguist I had never heard of it but yes it is very similar to modern Italian - mainly some spelling differences but still close to the sound. what interests me is that this is 900 and Rome still had a senate in the 500's no doubt using classical Latin - so how did the language used change that much in a few hundred years when there is relatively little chnagefrom 900 to now?

Thanks docoflove for the detailed comparison It explains why I understand so little Latin. I have principally a scientific background with a little psychology thown in which is why i ask you people linguistic and historical questions. An interesting point that vulgar Latin would be more like Italian tha the formal Latin we tend to learn. Is the vulgar Latin still known? i would also like to comment about the psycholgy of the people becasue there seems a big difference here too. Italians are more "make love not war" Romans definitely make war I wonder if the influences of the Latin people who the Romans conquered are here and it would be interesting to understand just how these peoples retained their identity for so long. An interesting point about the dialects also. Does anyone know about the different dialects and where they come from? The only dialect I know at all is Milanese and that has French overtones

Thanks so much for the help guys. Ginevra no offence intended - you may note my name which is Italian by the way.(save your criticism Gaius Ocatvius for the factual) I love ancient Rome AND I love modern Italy And this is not a quality judgement - who's is to say that supreme organisation is better than creativity and emotion. Look at the fantastic Italian art of the Renaissance which still goes on. I have friends who do incredible art work for a hobby in their spare time. The creativity in Italy is amazing and i have never seen it to such a scale anywhere elseThe Romans were incredible engineers but looked up to the Greeks for art. Just an aside butI stayed with an engineering family in Milan and was fascinated at the father who was to my mind an ancient Roman in appearance. He later told he couldn't understand his wife going to La Scala as he didn't really appreciate it - the only music he reallyliked was military marches. I am also talking about the SOUND of the language. I know there are many similarities in grammar having studied Latin many years ago though ot a linguist and not knowledgeabel about historical language stuff, but the Roman plus OstrgGoth does not equal for me equal Italian Perhaps the romans were much more expressive than we think.\ My opinion is not from Hollywood but from living in Italy, reading about the Romans. Hollywood plays up the decadence, opulence etc This is not the feeling I get from reading - while it was there it wa not what Rome was about I'd appreciate your thoughts on this too and will read the threads when I get some time

A question for those linguists out there! Latin is very different to modern day Italian and the Empire was overrun by Germanic races when it crumbled so how did Italian and the modern race arise? Modern Italians to me seem different to my idea of Romans in fact in some ways almost the opposite of the organised methodical Romans.