Rameses the Great

I've read it, thanks for the suggestion though! Anyways, I'm not talking about the hastati and principes era, I am talking about the legionary era. Even though they could be used in battle, their best function like any other spearman was to take down on coming cavalry. During the legion era, they were a force, and unbeatable but only going forward. If a legion was attacked from the sides or the rear it spelled great trouble for them. I must say though, the hoplite spearman thing is different. The triarii spears are around 8" while the hoplites is the minimum 18." (Sorry I am using the customary system.) As I said the phalanxe was brought over by the Ptolomies and the hoplite was a specialty of Greece, and Greece only. The triarii may have had some similar characteristics, but the hoplite was a copyright of the Greek military. The Greek phalanxe is meant to mow down armies without having to engage hand to hand. The triarii is the backbone of the Roman army that are veterans. That is a huge difference from the military standpoint.

I guess my question is, what did the Romans used to speak? Latin or some form of a new Italian. I know at their infancy stage the educated class spoke Greek. Also the Romans were Celts, from my understanding, could they have spoken like Celts? I mean, England's Brits used to speak Galic before they spoke English. The Romans had to speak something before Italian. The Greeks invented Latin, did the Romans speak that? Am I posting a good question, or am I just blindly asking a stupid question. I just want to know, for you language guys out there. Thanks in advance, Andrew

Tell your grandfather he is a brave man, he saved my motherland. Around the Suez Canal there were a lot of Jewish people living there, without the stopping in advance who knows he may have entered Jerusalem.

Egyptians look more Greek than Arab. There is a distinct difference. The Arabs tend to have very dark skin. The Arabs were more the equivelent of India, while Greece, Egypt, Phoenecia can be tied together. The Arab culture spread through Islam around 430 A.D. The ancient Egyptians were called Copt in Greek meaning, 'the original Egyptians.' Crete were the descendants of Greece and Egypt. If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask me, I am a Copt. P.S. Berbers were Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, and Moracco. In Arabic berber means, 'barbarian.' Also referred by the Americans later on as the Barbery States. Never including Egypt.

Just to clarify something: The Roman triarii was meant to protect the bulk of the army by wating on the sides and picking off the flanking horseman. The Greek phalanx hoplite was the staple of Greek infantry. It was basically their whole army. The triarii carried small spears and normal customary Roman long round shields. The Greek army was based on their hoplites the Romans were based on their legions. In order to have a strong frontal attack by the legions the triarii is needed to protect, the sides. There is no comparison, spearman were used internationally to take down on coming cavalry. Hellenestic phalanx was meant to be the infantry. And even though the phalanx term can be used internationally, the hoplite is a specialty of Greece.

If your going to blame Greek philosophy for beeing the downfall of Rome, it is only fair you credit it for the rise of Rome.

Studies in Greek Culture and Roman Policy by Erich S. Gruen. If you want in depth detail as to how to buy it, feel free to give me a personal message. I bought mine in Canada, but I'm sure you can find it somewhere in Ohio. I know that you are very interested in Cato, I think, so I will try to find other books on him.

Yes, it was based on Cato's strong Hellenezation beliefs. Erich Gruen compares the perception of the upper class to the lower class. Just to clarify something, Hellenization is not about rich and educated people. It is the culture the Greeks created and were embroidered in.

Absolutely correct Honorius very impressed. The Orthodox priests do not shave their beards to resemble they are not part of this world. All their time they do not care about their beards. Although, sometimes a trimming can be in order. It's also fair to point out the Jewish community at that time depicted young men with long hair and no facial hairs.

He showed the difference between the perception of Hellenenizm in Cato's time. You should read it, it is very interesting.

In peace, sons bury their fathers, in war, fathers bury their sons. --Herodotus

M Porcius Cato I just stated it. It was well documented that the upper class society respected Hellenism and the middle class did not. I have this book made by Erich Gruen and it states that upper class Romans viewed it differently than middle class and peasentry. The rich Romans who had connections to the Greek city states embraced the culture. The middle class thought that the Greeks treated them like 'barbarians.' You should probably read the book, if you are really interested on the topic.

I prefer that genius Franline. ;:

Did you know if they had knowledge of how Hellenization worked at that time? Only the upper class did. the uneducated class hated it, because they saw Greece as a tyrant. They felt that him excepting Greek ways as accepting Greek values which the middle and lower class would viemantly attest to. The upper calss had an appreciation of Greek art and theater. The middle class did not like the luxury at which the upper class was enjoying therefore they had deemed Hellenizm as a bad thing. Thats why you see the future leaders as not taking on Cato's characteristics. That is how Rome as you think today tried to move away from Hellenism.

I'm sure the middle and lower class Romans saw it as 'corrupt.' I think Hellenism in my point of view, spurred an evolution of art and literature. Of course, Rome hated Greece if you look at other areas effected by Hellenism like Egypt it was said to be a marvelous thing. Ursus you hit it right on the money, it depends on the way, period, and context it was used in. In my opinion however, how would the Roman government operate? Also Roman satire developed from Greek language and culture. The Romans were tired of beeing pushed around so they made Geece a mortal enemy, and called their ways corrupt. Many say, 'Rome would have been better without the Greeks.' When in actuality it is 'Rome would not have been what it was without the Greeks.'

Frankline, what's wrong with you people!? Anyways: Zeal is fit for wise men but is found mostly in fools. --Ancient proverb

This may not be the forum guidelines, and I don't mean to suck up to anyone. This forum had been one of the best things that has ever happened to me. No one in my family and school, apreciates history and I feel so happy here. I have always been interested in ancient history ever since I was in the 4th grade. To see not only a foum on ancient history but a perfect one, yes I said perfect, makes me explore topics I never had before. On behalf of the creaters of this foum I just want to say thanks soooo much, I love this site. Andrew

A penny saved, is a penny earned. --Benjamine Franline...gotta love that guy's mind!

I don't know, he clearly expressed more interest of the Persian culture more than his own. Remember Rome at that time was ruled by the King of Epirus, which was an independent state in Greece. Also the threat of many barbarian hoards attacking Rome was not worth the bother. It still was not a great prize. Rome in my opinion is not a great area, the Romans made it great. The East was a place that the Greeks had been eyeing on, so they conquered it. Alexander the Great would have conquered any place, as long as it was available. He could have easily taken Rome and Carthage, but a certain appeal called to him in the East.

There goes getting a good historical set down the drain...again. I understand if you put it at 49.99 or even 59.99 dollars but this is ridiculous. I'm pretty sure the professional athletes would not be interested in buying it like we would! By the time the price goes down, there will be another movie and Rome will no longer be a hot commodity.

Created two huge monstracities called the Nemmey ships. Was obsessed with the gladitorial fights and killed defenseless disabled men, so he seemed like a hero. Threw his civilians to be eaten by lions...yup he was mad.

Very true, it was like Poland but with defenders. Maybe like Switzerland too, the French had a hard time conquering it because of the surrounding mountains. Same could be said about Rome and Dacia.

Lets see the Roman 'Republic' society stand without Hellenezation. There is a saying that I like to say to myself, "Greece influenced Rome, more than Rome influenced itself." And in a good way ladys and gents.

Christian or not, you have to feel sick to your stomach to hear this. It looks like she is posessed by the devil and I just could not stand it. On judgement day? She keeps judging others and acting like God herself! Like the poster says 'God hates fags,' I guess those utter morons should heed the warning. Next time they should exercise a deamon and with a machine gun, so she can 'heed' the warning!

Golf, very boring to wath but not too painful to play. If you guys are looking for a raise, for example, take your boss golfing.