Gaius Octavius

Are any of the 'formulas'. i.e., set piece prayers known? Or, were they simply ad hoc declamations?

Do you think that Miss Thompson may have extrapolated a bit much about the coloring? Even glass changes its tint or color after being buried for 50 years.

Ave M.P. Cato: You have demolished me with your argumentation! I surrender; except for the logic bit. "All A is B, B is C., Ergo all C is A!" Did I get that wrong? Pax Vobiscum. Benedicite. Ite Missa Est.

Im from da Heart of America; Brooklyn, NY. You name it, we got da best of it. Except for the Dodgers. Anyway, I root for the Yankees and the Pats. :2guns:

The Celts had the answer to Towers and Battering rams,Hill forts. And the Romans had the response to that at Masada.

Salvete M.P. Cato: I don't wish to be ad hominem in my arguments, but yours seem to have a knack for distorting and limiting the meanings of words to suit your argument. Most of your points were adequately countered by others, so I will only take on a couple. Executive: When the executive branch of government proposes legislation, it does so through its surogates and 'bully pulpits' it. So with the Republic. Coups: Please do not credit me with a false syllogism that you have created. Democracy: It is either democracy or it is not. Democracy, in Athens, applied only to 'citizens' and not to all 'residents' of the city - no matter who they were. It took 'special' legislation to create a citizen. In Rome it applied to the 'tribes'. More dogs live in my block in NYC than there are people in Wyoming, yet they have two senators and three votes for president. Democracy? Extremis: Are you arguing that a coup is not the result of some party being in 'extremis'? In re oligarchs and poverty: That seems to be taken wholecloth from a certain claque in the U.S. Of course, the Roman poor were a lazy good for nothing lot. They suffer from a great fault of their own making. They are and were only good for taxes and cannon fodder. At one time the 'ager' was held in common until the 'good people' sequestered it. Fascinating questions: Arguments develop. That is how one learns. Unless this is to be a sophmore college 'debate' :2guns: Perhaps this thread has strayed from your original topic, but that is largely of your own making. Yet that is not a fault, else how could any discuss the matter, which, I presume is the reason for the original post. I don't think that any have said that you are wrong. There are differing points of view. For my own part, I have learned quite a bit from all. Thanks. (I hope that you have also.) Valete

I finally got around to tasting red Falerno. To my dis-educated palate it tasted like my idea of weasel you know what. I understand that the original vines were mostly destroyed in the 19th century by phylloxera but have since been recovered. Is it known if this is the same bilge that the Romans drank? Has it been compared, scientifically, to a sample of the stuff found at a dig or in the bilges of an ancient ship? Did the Romans 'cut' the stuff as French peasants lately did? Maybe I'll give the white stuff a try. Was the Roman wine red or white or both?

Don't forget the legionary shrine or temple. That may have gone up first. The 'surveyors' went ahead of the legions to choose a defensibe site. I'm not sure that this 'fatigue' was so difficult for 3 - 5 thousand men. Going off to learn how to cut and paste and look for omens. P.Pilus, you shouldn't be too strict with the likes of me, who still uses ink and pen. As a 'pledge' on your wonderful site, it is difficult for me to navigate it. But if you weren't strict, then I'd never learn and it keeps the Forum clean, so keep it up. (I think this is called stream of consciousness.)

Are you serious? Ave M.P. Cato: Of couse I am. Oh, you of no faith! I will have a Strewing of Couches to clense you. :angel: Was 'AMOR' - the secret name of Rome, its secret diety also?

Ave M.P. Cato: Are you actually arguing that the quality of legislation is less important than who introduces it? The nature of a government is only changed in extremis(?). When people are not with their governments, they change peaceably, by force or fall entirely. The steady degradation of the Republic had been in the background for a long time. It came to a head with the Triumvirate and the monarchy. Two consuls could never rule a great empire in alternate months, especially if all business had to cease when one was looking for omens, and a tribune had a veto. A Triunvirate, perforce, had to fail. A strong central directed government had to be formed, thus (for the times) a monarchy. Democracy has never existed anywhere. Not even in so small a group as a family. If oligarchs had to answer to the people, 95% of them would not have chosen poverty. :2guns:

Unlike all too many others, his parents were married and he didn't have to choose a father.

P.P., you are probably right. But then Bill had to do something dramatic. I came very close to exchanging punches with a pal over the 'son' business. If I were C., one wouldn't allow my language at the moment anywhere.

Could this be the place where the locals were guarding the site awaiting the return of the Romans? They were still doing this up until late in the last century.

Do you see all the Roman amphitheaters? Another first for the Romans.

Some day someone will get those molecules to go backwards and it will settle the question as to whether Gaius said "Et tu Brutus?" or "Kia Su Teknon" ,transliteration of the Greek - I hope, "And Thou My Child?". This would then go a way towards settling the question in the minds of some as to wheather Brutus (the usurer) was Gaius' son or not. In my opinion, Gaius would have had to start his rakes life at a very early age. Not impossible - for Gaius.

I think that you might mean 'three periods': the pagan Republic; the pagan Empire and the Christian Empire. "Byzantine" is an invention of medieval monks. It was always 'one' empire. The so called 'Byzantines' were merely a succession. The edicts of east and west were recognized in both. The soldiery melded from Roman to Italianate to barbarian as time went on. During the Republic, the legionaries owed their fealty to the state. During the Empire to the commander. I doubt if religion made a soldier braver or not. You can click around on this site or try Roman Empire