Gaius Octavius

Aside from killing and wounding, the German SS murdered their opponents. The regular army units did not like to serve with them beause they would become subject to Allied 'justice' at the front. They were not treated very kindly when captured. At one time it was taught that it was better if an enemy were wounded rather than killed, because it took at least two men out of the battle,

Not really the entrails per se but bones, fat & scraps yes (as far as I understand) Now that I think that my brain is in gear, wasn't it the smoke from burning the inedibles that was supposed to satisfy the gods?

Do you think that there might have been a less, shall we say, 'explosive' result had the art been practiced with the IRA? Although I too was greatly discommoded and shocked at the event, I can't bring myself to apologize for the IRA's nefarious practices. Nor the Brits.

My Dear Gracious Pertinax: Are you implying that they 'knew' each other in the 'biblical sense'? In the unlikely event that you are not, then I apologize to you and all, Brits in particular.

Thanks Pertinax. I forgot Mohammed Ali Jinnah's name. Wore a cool hat with his suit and tie. I apologize for my Early Onset Alzheimer's. A golden Roman as to the first man who uses the word 'apologize' four times in one sentence.

I apologize for being ill informed about the 20th Century politics of South Asia... and I apologize for being the only one in this thread still apologizing. I didn't apologize and I don't apologize for not apologizing!

Broke away? I was under the impression that the British themselves carved that up when they left to keep the Muslims & Hindus from falling into civil strife? It was the Paki leader who wanted a separate Pakistan (east and west).

Keep in mind that there isn't one Moslem nation or state with a significant Moslem population where a non-Moslem can practice his faith in peace. That whole Bosnia-Hertzgovina business started with Izabegovich attempting to set up a Moslem state. A statue of Mother Theresa can't be put up in Albania. Now that the shoe is on the other foot in Kosovo, Serbs can't practice their faith, yet they never stopped Moslems from practicing theirs. The religon of 'Peace' beheads Christians in The Philippenes; hangs 13 year-olds in Pakistan; murders innocents in Indonesia; murder a film-maker in The Netherlands, and that is just for starters. They can practice their religion in any other land in peace. No one can be a non-Moslem in Saudi Arabia, yet they can come to the USA to gamble, booze it up and make loans at interest. I don't want an 'apology' for that; it would not be worth the letters the word in composed of. Does the word JUSTICE mean anythiing?

I just noticed the recombinate Mastadon in the background... ^_^ LOL indeed. And I just realized I have no idea what the 'M' on our poor repentant cyborg's chest represents. Martian, Mastodon, Moonlapse...? (I'll be good and move this butchered example of a thread to off-topic. Uhh with apologies to original thread starter Philhellene for said butchering.) Ha! Gotcha! You didn't apologize!

The Romans and their allies did not put all of their troops in at Cannae. They committed about 50,000 men. Hannibal did march on Rome, but was convinced to give up the idea as a loser. Roman mothers, to scare their children, would tell them: 'Annibal a porta!'(?) 'Hannibal is at the door'.

I understand that at a sacrifice, the gods were served up the entrails and the people ate the 'good' stuff. Isn't there an Italian delicatessen meat todat, that is prepared in the salted way Cato suggests?

A regular army colonel told our class (a long time ago), that a commander in WWII, in Europe was happy if 20% of his men fired their weapons!

Try this. Compliments of Primus Pilus. Roman Army

I am back from Rome, this time as a suppliant. I felt that Germanicus was rude. But, that, if so, was no reason for my rudeness. I apologize for my lapse in manners to Germanicus and to all of you. When I was in school, we had exercises of this kind. In particular, North Africa in WWII. The British 'box'; Rommel's use of tanks and artillery. If my all too faulty memory serves, the British never gave it a thought that Rommel could traverse and debouche from the Quatarra(?) Depression with his tanks on their flank and rear. Suprise! Suprise! Sun Tzu and Macchievelli maintained that the battle and war were won before they commenced. I think that the British have held that Waterloo was won on the cricket fields of Eaton. 'What would you have done at the Battle of....', is a valid topic for discussion and not only fun, provided that one pays careful attention to the dialogue. Si vales; valeo, Furius, much of what you say, I feel, is so. Yet, the elements of surprise and novel movements are never eliminated from these 'games'. They most certainly are encouraged and looked for.

Germanicus, you are so mature and so right. I am going back to Rome.

Ramses: How did the Romans ever beat them? Magic? Phyrrus is said to have commented loosely: If I win another battle like this, I'll be ruined.

Again, if "I" have to use the tactics of the time, what is the point of the exercise? At some point in time things do change. I am not using or doing anything that was not possible at that time. No tanks or howitzers. Hannibal did not use a phalanx at Lake Trasimine nor Scipio at Zama. "I" am just ahead of them. Someone had to do it first. Why not me? I am not limiting Germanicus. Scipio found a way to neutralize and defeat Hannibal's elephants at Zama. Should he not have done that because it was not done before? A long time ago, I read a book by a British officer, I think Liddell-Hart. I think that it was titled 'Greater Than Alexander' (Scipio). He imagined an imaginary conversation betwen Hannibal and Scipio. Scipio asked Hannibal who was the greatest Captain in history? Hannibal answered himself; but the greatest General was Scipio. Liddell-Hart(?) claimed that Alexander fought oriental 'mobs', whereas Scipio fought an organized army. I am not denigrating Alexander, nor was the author. Bring on Germanicus.

Defeated like Vaus? I wouldn't be thinking of history - just winning. The Romans did have a signal system. And messingers. Troopers can and were trained. By heavy armor, do you mean dismounted medieval knights? I realize that this is a chess game. All the moves are on the board, but I am not telling Germanicus my future moves. He will see.

Becaus the Romans did not cross the Rhine or advance north fron Dacia, it does not follow that these two peoples did not have intercourse in trade at least.

I'm sorry I do not know how you can call an evil Adolph Hitler who did such evils Uncle Adolph, that is insensitive and not right. I don't think that you absorbed the sense of the point or the emoticon - before 'head'. It's a bit of satire, if you will, an Americanism. Once Stalin was called 'Uncle Joe', but then maybe you are not old enough to remember that. He was not on my list of human beings. I have nothing to apologize for. Members of my family were on the front lines against 'Uncle' Adolph.

Furius, once again, (if I am not in great error), the question was: What would "I" do in the 4th century B.C. I am alive and a time machine is transporting "me" back in time. So I really don't want two mobs hacking away at each other else, why bother with the question? I agree with your last sentence, but I would not be generous. Legionnaire, my intention is not to attack initially, but to get the Samnites to attack. Germanicus, would you really attack one of the divided elements when they are 600 feet apart? We don't know how distant the opposing armies are at the outset. So, I am asuming that I have room and time enough to manouver. You are reacting to my efforts. Our camps would not be within arrow range of each other. In any event, I would be on your backside or flank with my other force. I want you to attack me, and that is what you are doing. The Romans are masters of the situation. (Something like the Cunctator on my part.) If you take one hill with your entire force, you are welcome. If you divide and take both hills, I will withdraw to a line west of the hills, and my cavalry and a small force of infantry will make certain that you are eating bark in a day or two. If you do nothing or withdraw, we'll have at you from two sides tomorrow. I will make certain that I can always 'see' you. You will not get away with a night march through the valley and have your way with my town. Your turn.

The thing of it is, a Roman developed something like a working steam engine in the reign of Tiberius 1700 years before an Englishman did the same thing. But it was put to use opening and closing the massive doors of a temple rather than agricultural or industrial production. And the invention was forgotten ... Prof. Eugene Weber in a televised lecture insinuated that the Romans were as capable of anyone as developing technology, but the conservative cultural values of the early empire did not know how, or did not want to know, how to apply those advances for maximum effect. Professor Heather who recently visited our forums provides evidence that the late empire was productive and technologically advanced (for ancient Europe). Of course, the late empire was a time of change, when the landed aristocracy and their values had taken backseat to a new militaristic order. I'm pretty sure that the inventor of this machine was Heron(?), a Greek. He invented a number of steam and water driven machines well before Tiberius' time. They were mostly used in temples to relieve the poloi of their gold burden. "Deus Ex Machina"! They were also used in the theater and produced some interesting results. Obviously all of his work was lost and not re-invented until the 18th or 19th century.

That, Cato - is an excellent point ! Hmm ... It's the kind of argument called 'post hoc ergo propter hoc'. Be careful A.D., M.P. Cato will retort that it is the 'scientific' method and in my not so humble opinion , he will be correct.

Forgot the topic Anyhow, Uncle Adolph, late of Barbaria, set up SS centers to 'breed' the tall, blond haired, blue eyed type. Went so far as to abduct Polish kids, who fit the type. That :*****: head didn't come near fitting the type. A while back some lad did a study and found that there were no more of this type in Barbaria than there are in Spain or Italy. (Doesn't mean it is true.) Now, really . At the end of WWII, in 1946 or 1947, some Sicilians wanted Sicily to be a part of America. The Normans did kick the Moslems out of Sicily. In the far south of Italy, there are pockets of Greek Orthodox believers. In one of her movies, Sophia Loren :wub: said: "...smart, like a German.", about some kid. Don't blondes prefer the 'tall, dark, handsome type'?

These are most certainly the End Days. We agree! :notworthy: