docoflove1974

I really expected there to be a lumberjack reference there...

Sonic, you're right (as is Kosmo) that I didn't pick up on the irony of your post. I do apologize for that. I don't know that you are right that only a minority thought of an animal sacrifice as a BBQ with the remainder treating it as a religious ceremony. I think I would side with MPC on this one, that many would feel that it's both a religious affair and a BBQ. I think many--maybe not the majority, but certainly a good portion of the populace--were not as strongly religious as you are intimating. As for a percentage, I have no idea, nor does anyone.

Wow, that's really interesting. The 'cleansing of the soldiers' makes sense--a way to detox from the warring lifestyle, as such. The recognition of the agricultural community that the soldiers, who kept the enemies at bay, helped them in their business is quite remarkable to me. I realize that, while Rome was a military-driven society at the start, it was in no way near the level that Sparta was. But did Spartans have a similar ritual? What about other societies; did they have a 'cleansing' ritual which also acknowledged the role of the soldier as a protector of society? Cleansing rituals, I would think, are not that uncommon, but the society essentially 'thanking' them and the gods involved for continued protection at the same ritual seems different to me.

I think this is over-generalizing, to say the least. Not all Greeks had the same education--not across social/economic classes, and when one compares the various city-states, 'education' as a concept varied. This is true in any 'big' society, where there are various groups of people, while bound by a common language, but independent; look at just the United States, where there is a battle for 'standardized' education across the country, let alone comparing it to the education system of Canada, Britain, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. And the Greeks had no clue with engineering??? You don't think there's engineering in the building of temples, the construction of cities, and the like? Just because no volumes exist (and I'm not sure of this) doesn't mean they didn't know anything about engineering. In the specific case of the ancient Greek societies, you have thousands of buildings, canals, and other construction as testament that they had quite a bit of engineering knowledge! Quite untrue. First, it may have been written about, but the documents have been lost; this is very common for ancient texts, and even for modern texts. Secondly, when dealing with an oral-tradition, not everything was written down. I find your position very western-centric, and I cannot agree. If one takes into account various modern societies around the globe, there are always religious rituals which are followed by those who wholely believe in the religion, as well as those who do not fully believe but follow tradition in order to 'be like the others' in society, and those who do not always participate. I would argue that most people (not necessarily all) acknowledge a 'higher spiritual force' that somehow governs life. Many societies have formalized that notion of a 'higher spiritual force' into a religion, and then adding dogma. Many follow these formalized religions and the dogma and traditions that are created. But there are always those who simply acknowledge this 'higher spiritual force' and that's it, without following the formalized religion. This is human nature. My point is that if you live in a society where if you 'don't believe' you are shunned, then there are less possibilities of documented proof of dissension. In order to be published and recognized, you have to toe the societal line...this is as true today as it ever has been! Furthermore, we do not possess all documents from ancient Greece, the Roman Empire, or any other ancient society, so we cannot presume evidence that we do not have. We can only analyze evidence that we do have, and acknowledge that there are other possibilities out there that haven't been found as of yet.

Really, Darkus, that was uncalled for. Stop being a party pooper, and go get your drunk on...

I don't know about a website (I'd be interested in that!), but the general work that I use to look up information on the subject is Veikko Vaanaanen's 'Introduction to Vulgar Latin'; it's been published in French and Spanish, and I imagine in other languages (I have the Spanish version, 1988, Gredos). It's a linguistic book, so some knowledge of linguistics is required, but it's overall a solid reference for Vulgar Latin. I usually back that up with Josef Herman's (2000) Vulgar Latin (Penn State Press); this is an updated version of his French volume of the same name. This also requires some knowledge of linguistics, but is a short overview of the language.

Just the webpage actually has nothing new. It's another way of describing subject-object-verb word order and the concepts of case and gender. I didn't go to the second lesson, but I imagine that it's more of the same.

"Will there be beer?" --Homer Simpson I'm a beer snob...just like I'm a booze snob and a wine snob. I've yet to have a bad Sam Adams brew, regardless of the type (currently imbibing a White Ale, and it's damn yummy); Harp is a stand-by. Local brews of Gordon Birsch, Anchor, and Sudwerk are always welcomed in my fridge. As for temp...I like for it to start cold...it doesn't have to stay that way. I'm a slow drinker

Are you thinking of something like the Eleusinian Mysteries, here, Doc? (It springs to mind as regards the ancient world, at least) I hadn't thought of that, Augusta, but yes, I see that following in here. In my mind I had the Marxist/Communist regimes at the forefront, but if we keep with the antiquities, the Eleusinian Mysteries would be placed there. Much like you and MPC are stating, it's an arrogant position to assume that humanity practiced and professed religious beliefs any differently in any other civilization, at the very least.

I would almost argue that there are as many super-religious folk as ever before, as well as those who have only a 'spiritual' connection with a religion (who may not follow religious dogma to the letter) and those who remain skeptical/agnostic. However, it is a difficult argument to prove; if the sociological rules dictate that one cannot openly speak about a state religion (or lack thereof), then there probably won't be much written record of dissension or alternative viewpoints.

I believe that in most cases the answer is an unequivocal 'yes'. It was definitely the predominant grain/starch staple for North and Central America; in South America potatos (regular, not sweet) have historically been the #1 starch staple.

Ooooooooooooooooooh...yikes...America-centric thinking coming into play again. Now that has me puzzled...here in the US (and I guess Canada), 'maize' isn't really used, unless perhaps specifically referring to a given type of corn. Was the name 'corn' always used in English for any large-kerneled grain, or only to 'maize'?

In a couple of threads on here (most recently, the Plebian unrest thread) there's mention of corn as a staple grain. I was under the impression that corn was not introduced to Eurasia until after the Spaniards came to the Americas. Is this not true? Was another variety of corn known to Europe and/or Asia well before this?

Not to mention the bleached 'wheat' used in making white bread...and the list goes on. I will say that the wonderful trend of the last 5-10 years here in the States of the Farmers' Market has been so good for me, and many others. Many states (including California) mandate that anything sold must come from the farm of the person selling it, so it is truly fresh, often organic, and straight off the farm. Not to mention how fun it is to go around and see everyone's wares!

True enough, AD. Just like I'm sure that Basque has 'relatives' around in the ancient languages of Europe, those which were never recorded by the Romans, Germanic tribes, or anyone else of the Indo-European group. Somehow the puzzle pieces fit together!

I honestly hadn't heard this, Pantagathus...but will look into this.

Too many jokes...must be good...

Snow????? Methinks GO has traveled off in his mind to the Hinterlands. That, or the wine he's got is a wee bit 'tainted'. Eo? Sensible? Now, where be Manlius... Edit to add: *gulping pride* GO pointed out my spelling error...and I am required to acknowledge his prowess in the English language, at the expense of my own. Ugh...I need a shower now.

There's a joke in there somewhere...I'll just leave that alone Thanks, AD...so, bascially, a fair amount of food (for 2, no less!) for not much money. That sounds about right; the poor need to be fed, too.

Yeah, but that doesn't fit the rhyme...sheesh... Tis the question of the moment! Perhaps it was the 'apple' that gave it away?

Damn, this is turning into a regular San Francisco treat!!! Trannies, and grannies, and leather, oh my! Ok, not so much on #2...but I'm sure GO will figure something out. Hmmmmm...slaves from Cornelius. I'll have to figure out a use for them.

The Indo-European peoples who spoke the 'Italic' branch of the language, who later conquered and settled in the peninsula, did come in from the north...or by sea...no one's 100% sure. Personally, I believe that the bulk of them came from the north, in the same (or similar) wave of migration as the Celtic tribes. As for the Etruscans, yes, I do believe the 'consensus' opinion is that they were there first before the Italic-speaking peoples came in...but that's also a default position; that is to say, we don't know where they came from, and they were there first, but no one's sure about how or when they got there. Now, this is the linguistic evidence that I know...but the archeology might say something else, or corroborate it.

This is often the reason given for many inner-city peoples, and the subsequent health issues are blamed on this in our society. But I'm just guessing that this Roman fast food was just a hair healthier than meal deal #1, supersized. Though this brings to mind cost: many moons ago, I used to think that, because I was always broke, I couldn't afford as many veggies and fruit. Then I did a cost-analysis, learned how to buy in the right proportion and in the season...suddenly I realized that it's way cheaper to buy veggies and fruit--and not buy so much that it goes to waste!--than to buy mac n cheese and the like. And to be honest, when in Spain the 'authentic' fast food was relatively cheap--like 5 euros--for quite a decent sized portion of food. Bottom line is, do we know how much (roughly) this food was? If you live in a place with meager cooking facilities, if anything, you probably don't have much money to start with...so this 'fast food' couldn't have been very expensive.

The answer is that it also varies. Those words which were borrowed into the language via academic routes *tend* to carry the same or similar pronunciation; this also varies depending on when it was borrowed. And in the case of English, not only do you have academic pursuits in play, but the fact that for many, many generations French was the language of the court, so there are Latin and Norman and French additions to the language at a higher register (aka not necessarily of the common folk). Many words of Romance origin are brought into the language during the Renaissance period--this is, after all, a 're-birth' of the Classical period!--from Latin, Greek, and various Romance languages (mostly Spanish and Italian); during the Age of Enlightenment more French is brought into English. And as for pronunciation...well, a little of everything. For the academic/higher register words, often the process is that if the borrowed term sounds like it could fit into the borrowing language, then the pronunciation is kept, or is very close. This is primarily what happens in the English situation. Latin hard 'c' [ki, ke] were often re-interpreted as a soft 'c' [si, se]; 'v' was interpreted as a [v]--this is all based on how it was read, and therefore how the English-speaking person read and spoke what they saw. That's probably how things entered...as for how the populace analyzed and internalized the data is up for many interpretations.

"Uh, yeah, can I have combo meal #2, but can you swap out the stuffed mushrooms? I'd like the dumplings instead. Oh, and I'll have a medium wine with that."