caldrail

You are aware I take it, that slaves were recruited to the legions more than once? Granted they were made freedmen first, but hardly citizens were they? Further, that the practice of including landless peasants (and not ciizens either) in the levies was one inspiration for Marius's reforms and the opening of the legions to volunteers of the lower orders?

Why would I believe you're right? You come up with titles no-one has ever heard of, formations the roman military never listed, and procedures that bear no resemblance to that I read in books written by established authorities. Simply claiming my prose is flowery does not make you right, and your replies are not standing up to scrutiny at all.

There wasn't any membership. It was a voting assembly. The presiding officer calls for a vote, and any eligible citizen can pop down to Campus Martius and add their vote to the total. Thats roman democracy. The only limitation was that it wasn't a free vote. You had to add your vote to a senior romans. Secondly, changes in social status are circumstantial and have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Senate Censor'. Adrian Goldsworthy in The Complete Roman Army mentions that social mobility was always possible. There you RW, I quoted a source. You don't, which is why you're struggling to get your point across. No, it wasn't. It was a voting assembly for those men who had earned the right by virtue of military service to Rome. That said, it appears any citizen was entitled to attend an assembly. Not the same as yours either. I'll be happy to do so, once you start listing your sources. You can't have everything all your own way.

There is some evidence from India that he did, and visited the place early in his career, and there's some place in the north of India that has his tomb. Also I understand that israeli archaeologists have uncovered some. Thing is, there's no smoke without fire, and older legends are almost always built on something real - it provided the inspiration for the stories that followed. I don't have any source on any of this and I have to say I'm relying on what was discussed on tv. Mind you, given constantine's attempt to get a family member worshipped as Jesus, maybe you're right after all. Same thing happened with Arthur. He got inserted into celtic adventures as the hero in place of the original. But... I know Caesar claimed he was a descendant of the gods, but then that was self-aggrandisement and it wasn't unknown for romans of high birth to make such claims. In Jesus's case, he apparently portrayed himself as the Son of God, something much more direct, by virtue of being the expected Messiah, the chosen one. Caesar simply made sure he was chosen.

The weather has taken a turn for the worse and its temporarily goodbye to long hot spring days. Yep. British weather has reasserted itself and its raining. Just in time for the traditional downpour on a Bank Holiday Weekend. Dream of the Week Nearly decided that getting a job was the front runner for that prize, but no, it was last nights dream about tornado's. Don't remember the details, but someone pointed out the window and there they were, four or five funnels under a thick black cloud, one heading our way. Of course we hid and I have to say, for a dream about a weather phenomenon I've never experienced, the special effects were pretty impressive. Luckily the building withstood the tornado as it passed over and I was spared a visit to Oz. TV Comedy of the Week Has to go to The Mighty Boosh. I'd not seen it before but came across a repeat on freeview tv. For those that don't know, its a surreal comedy about a young mystic and his pet familar, a talking gorilla, and the two local musicians he rents rooms to. Its bizzarre stuff but genuinely amusing at times, and I hate to say it, very observant of life in Britain. Might be a bit challenging for non-brits though. The gauntlet has been thrown down...

Well, if my experience of the music industry is anything to go by, then opportunities can be created by yourself as well as others. Its about knocking on the right door and being in the right place at the right time. We even once dragged some music executive out of a nightclub for an impromptu sales pitch on the sreet. Ok, that didn't work... But getting yourself in front of an employer to give him your sales pitch can make a difference. Word of mouth. The chap you spoke might not have a vacancy for you but then perhaps someone he knows does. Then its a matter of making the right impression. So far though, I'm not desperate enough to wander up and down the street with a sandwich board saying "Gizza Job". Even if some employers think I am. No, that comes later, when the employment agency decide I'm a useless drain on society and attempt to persuade me that rubbish collection is an interesting and worthwhile career move.

And before the spanish turned up with their horses (and dogs apparently), the amerindians were using dogs as draft animals.

Well... Without being experts ourselves and not having access to the research or researchers, I for one will take the report at face value until I have reason to doubt it. Religion might be a matter of faith, but their paraphenalia left behind can be subject to scientific analysis. Wouldn't want to hoaxed eh?

My own objections about this comparison are based on the following criticisms of the Jesus story. I know christians won't like me saying these things, but then I'm a lone voice, and they've got plenty. 1 - Jesus was not divine Why did God wait until the beginning of the 1st century AD? If his own son was to have any meaningful impact, surely there were times and places better suited for the purpose. Why was he born to an insignificant mortal family out in the sticks? Why was he born a mortal? Why was he born at all? As the Son of God, why wasn't he given to Mary as such? Why was Mary's purity violated by the need to bear a bastard child? Since his status as Gods only begotten child requires faith in the absence of evidence, the assumption of his divinity is only backed by the story of Mary's supposed purity. Since Jesus was mortal, and that his mother gave birth to a child that was not his fathers, the conclusion is somewhat obvious and has been glossed over in the Bible to prevent any controversy. 2 - Jesus was a cult leader Acccording to the story, Jesus is a lay preacher, outside the accepted priesthoods. He pulls in a band of followers, attempts to attract others to his cause, and makes his living in this way. Typically, such charismatic people don't behave in quite the same way as most folk, and as an outsider to polite society there is no fundamental difference between Jesus as related in the Bible and modern day cultists. 3 - Jesus was a failure His own family disowned him. Further, whatever message he wanted to spread, he failed to do so, despite the glorification in the Bible. It was his followers who made christianity a success decades later, after his life story had been embellished. Depending on which source you believe, Jesus died by crucifixion in Judaea or of old age in India. 4 - Jesus was obscure A son of god, a prophesied messiah, is born in Judaea and goes on to perform miracles. But no-one says anything? Why didn't Suetonius relate an anecdote in his 'Life of Tiberius' about some guy in Judaea claiming to be divine? And why didn't Tiberius have him delivered to Capri for a personal demonstration of his miracles? Admittedly Tiberius cared little for provincial politics, but a genuine miracle-worker would surely have picqued his interest. According to some sources, Jesus travelled to Cornwall in England with traders. Whilst possible, there is no record of this journey other than folk tales from the places he was rumoured to have passed through, and the same might be said of his alleged early years in India. 5 - Jesus is largely myth Ok, he existed. But much of his reported life is apparently borrowed from eastern mysticism and pagan mythos. Much is said about Jesus's message being important rather than his metaphysical significance, but his 'message' is reported in the Bible, an account assembled from stories told decades after his death, sometimes by people who never met him, later subject to sectarian variance during the early and mid roman empire, later still censored to form the original drafts, which themselves were then retranslated and reworked in much the same way as other legended characters such as Arthur or Robin Hood. 6 - Jesus's death was meaningless Why is his death so low-key and if intended to die for our sins, why was there a need to do this? The Bible does not relate any threat from God to repeat the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah, despite the Judaean dislike of roman culture (though arguably, the later Book of Revelations predicts the downfall of Rome) The statement that he was crucified to save mankind is a message that a christian should therefore feel guilty if he does not follow the christian teachings, and is another example of inventing significance to explain mundane events in the real world.

No, it limits his options. There were always rare exceptions and for instance one man rose from the ranks to become emperor. What happened to your dictated position there? That might true of equestrian men selected for direct entry into the centurionate. It certainly never applied to those promoted from the ranks. One of the duties of the comitia centuriata was to elect consuls, and because the centuriata was restricted to citizens, there were limits to the numbers eligible. In fact, although this voting assembly was originally intended to encompass those with a military record, I can\'t find any limitation on attendance other than citizenship. Also, the assembly was a civilian institution, not amilitary one, and had nothing to do with being a pool of officers. Thats purely fantasy RW. No, they become centurions of the legion, with command responsibility for a century. Whether all citizens could vote is not the issue. There were three other voting assemblies anyway so I suspect they could vote, even if the issues voted on wer restricted. Any Consul who ignores citizens may well find himself unpopular and this will affect his career afterward. So? So? Mr Gamer. The Comitia Centuriata was not a secret organisation, it was not an exclusive officers club, it was a voting assembly for men who had fought for Rome, who were therefore considered as worthy of that right.

Ah yes.. Luck... But isn't it true you make your own? So, in true romanesque fashion, I shall have the slaves copy my Curriculum Vitae and distribute copies to all merchants and societae. Think it might be as well if I don't daub grafitti on my rivals homes however....

Looks like we're getting thrown out then

I'm a little uncomfortable with all this talk of 'demons', which to me seems a little more recent than roman Judaea. Still, these researchers know more than I, so if true, it shows those judaic beliefs in a new light as far as I'm concerned, especially since how little talk there is of demonology in the bible. Apart from the Revelations, the only mention I recall of demons is Jesus's dismissal of tempatation - which has to be an allegorical tale designed to underline Jesus's divinity. Further, since the story of Jesus is skewed by later christian authorities to reinforce this idea of divinity, and something that causes some very odd recorded behaviour from Jesus, how would Jesus actually benefit from asking Judas to betray him? Judas after all is symbolical of betrayal, and the man is said to have committed suicide afterward, a crime in christian eyes. Since this means he couldn't actually be a christian by virtue of his 'abhorrent' actions, he is therefore a jew, and a jew responsible for Jesus's death - something that spawned killings that began in the crusades and reached its zenith in the Holocaust. So it begs the question - is Jesus asking Judas to set him on the road to martyrdom (a desirable christian image) or is he saying - "Judas, you're not one of us are you?". The researcher in this case is using evidence to stress the religious side of the equation but nonetheless the translation is literal. Is there any possibility that we misunderstand the word 'demon' in applying it to a creature of infernal origin, when it might mean 'Person Infected By Evil Intent'?

The vicus of a roman fort is a settlement next to the roman military and serving their needs as the basis of their economy. It contains ordinary citizens, artisans, merchants, and prostitutes, besides any unofficial family of the serving soldiers. It was therefore a small community in ts own right rather than married quarters just off base.

I wasn't quite correct though. It was possible for a soldier to be promoted to the centurionate from the ranks (if he displayed the necessary qualities and a vacancy existed), which may well mean he was not a citizen, and therefore ineligible to attend an assembly covened by the comitia centuriata.

Yep, thats me. Mr Cranky Pants My new neighbours keep locking the outside door and leave me struggling to get in and out of my own home. They keep starting to play loud music and I've got a sore foot banging on the floor. I keep applying for jobs but Swindon employers have recently had lobotomies so they can't understand their own recruitment procedures. The Saturday night Town Cryer Association is still in business and vocal in the early hours. My car is starting to look a little weather worn and dishevelled. Doesn't matter, I am too. I think I'm going to end up looking like Tom Hanks in Marooned. Ahh, Mr Caldrail, thank you turning up to this interview. A banana? No?, well, lets begin. So... How long have you been a part of western civilisation?... I see, and you have your own cave?... Excellent.... So, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to buy a pair of garden shears... Positive Moment of the Week The lady at the employment office was impressed. No, really, she was. You've been busy She said with raised eyebrows as my jobsearch logs tumble onto her desk. Oh yes, its a great feeling, watching her totally unable to question my existence as a dole seeker and forced by circumstance to get me to sign on for another fortnight. But thats not really positive enough is it? Ok, after I left my house a few days back, a passing lady asked if this was the road she was looking for. I said, yes, it is. She went away happy, I went about my business content in the knowledge that she hasn't become lost in the rainforests of Darkest Wiltshire. What a nice day.

With or without copious quantities of wine?

And further, a centurion doesn't need to be a member of the comitia centuriata, because he already is. The term centuriata refers to centuries, not centurions, and any citizen enrolled in the roman legions - as a member of a century - is eligible to take part in the assemblies. The assembly wasn't exactly democratic as it seems though, since the wealtheir members were given a disproportionate say in what was voted for and in any case voting was done on a block principle.

Its curious that DNA evidence suggests we're all descended from seven women - all the other blood lines have become extinct. Also, that if human beings hadn't migrated out of Africa when they did, we might not have been here at all. As to distribution, there might be any number of factors why certain populations didn't spread. Native inhabitants, lack of survival resources across wide territory, or simply that they'd found a place that was ok and didn't want to go anywhere else. People generally migrate because they need new sources of food and other desirable bits and pieces, either due to their own over-use or because climate change is working against them. I don't know much at all about our very earliest ancestors but is interesting.

Another little gripe about libraries... Well, I seem to spend a lot of time in them these days. Sometimes I stroll across town to the local library at a sports centre. Today, as I log on, its become an impromptu day care centre. There's a whole tribe of infants all sat around singing nursery ryhmnes. Maybe its my age, but I feel an urge to morph into AM, and shout "WILL YOU LOT SHUT UP! I'm trying to type my emails." Oh no, not another nursery rhymne. Twinkle twinkle little star... Now they're clapping along too. I thought libraries were supposed to be quiet? Mind you, all those innocent little angels sat back there transifixed by their renditions of the latest nursery top ten are tomorrows thugs, burglars, dole cheats, joyriders, and vandals. Now you know why they turn out bad. Headline of the Week The latest headline in our local newspaper proclaims that Booze has cost town

Not quite, however... The Mig used a russian version of a british jet engine. The Sabre and the Mig both used data derived from that gathered from german research in WWII, so they were guided toward the same results. Aerodynamics concerning flight at transitional speed (ie, speed of sound and compressibility effect) were not clearly understood by either manufacturer at the time, and since the designers of both sides were pretty much at the same point, they came to similar conclusions about methods of coping with such obstacles. Interestingly, against north korean pilots the americans did very well, as expected. The covert use of russian pilots - with WWII experience in many cases, came as something of a shock later, and in fact the americans were almost outclassed in their tenacious attacks.

We'd get thrown out!

Blush? What on earth are talking about? No, I don't blush, I admit to an error. I always have. Thats why I log onto this site, so I can learn. Unfortunately, RW, your info-dumping is often not relevant to the thread and sometimes factually in error. Further, you miss the point sometimes when errors or details are pointed out to you. Further still, whilst you may well go to some effort in learning facts and figures, you clearly make no effort to understand it nor do you apply any thought to it - you simply repeat what you read regardless of its accuracy. Firstly, if you're accused of making something up, then list the reference you got it from. Its easy. You still might be wrong - as sometimes happens to me - but at least you avoid the smell of bovine refuse. Secondly, much of your earlier posts were 'workguesses'. If you want to guess, then stop portraying your info-dumping as authoritive. If I 'workguess', I say so, and leave it to the forum to add their opnion or correct my mistake. There is no shame in not knowing, but wilful ignorance is a crime. Thirdly, did Richard I, Coeur De Lion, really carry a copy of Vegetius around with him? I seriiously doubt it. He was not a studious man, he was a born fighter. He loved combat. So much so that he went off on crusade so he could win glory in the holy lands and enjoy a good scrap. A bookworm he was not - and I don't recall any mention of his being able to read and write. The website may well be exaggerating there. Fourthly, I said the centurion had authority akin to a 'tribal chief'. You leaped in with both feet and pointed out the original roman tribal structure, and in doing so completely missed the point of what I was saying. I wasn't drawing any connection with roman cultural structure - I was showing that a centurion ran his century as a warband, as a barbarian style gathering. He didn't motivate his troops as we might do today, he imply flogged them if they didn't obey. There was no subtlety - roman discipline was thuggish and harsh by necessity. Fifth - You cling to the victorian ideal of roman efficiency and smartness like its some sort of unassailable rock. That image of the roman legions is more than a hundred years old and reflects military thinking as it was then. Come on RW, we've moved on. Archaeology and history has become more sophisticated in the last quarter century and with it has the way we look at roman culture. The roman military was a great deal more basic than Vegetius infers. Sixth - As smug as you like to be, you've had cause to blush more than I. In fact, you're trying to score points off me by sneering. I'm very sorry I've doubted your word RW, but you do make exceedingly good errors. The difference is that I admit it and move on. You either go silent, dump some irrelevant info to look clever, or attempt to grab the moral high ground. You're not the first to try that with me, and I've seen off people more knowledgable than you. Seventh - You read what you want to, you extract the information that agrees with your thoughts, you do not apply any critical thought. For you roman history is a religion and anything that does not agree with that image of roman history you have up there in your head you discount. Thats not history at all. The evidence is out there, RW, but it doesn't fit your conclusion. Eighth - Finally, I couldn't give a monkeys if you happen to know more than I about roman history. Great. Brilliant. Thats what this site is about, its discussing that subject, and asking questions is the first step to understanding. You I notice, never ask. You want the status of expert. But you're not prepared to earn it.

Publication standard work. How do you keep the proportions accurate? Do you paint over linework?

As usual, we line up outside the library waiting for it to open, so we can all enjoy the public internet access. Read books? Ahem. The doors open, and the library assisteant, a clean cut lad, is brushed aside as the experienced library goers are keen to log on. Poor lad nearly gets trampled to death. Good grief, AM's friend has bought himself a new coat. Instead of the filthy padded jacket he's owned since 1976 he now wears a raincoat, very suitable for spring sunshine and long days in the park. Err.. feeding birds that is... AM himself is his usual self. The world exists for him to whinge about, and as usual, his attempt to send emails to Mauritius fail and he gets uptight about it. He loudly informs us all of how difficult the computer is to use, and how easily it doesn't do what he wants. Having informed and educated us, he eventually harasses the library staff and an incredibly patient lady shows him the correct button, the one he was shown last week. So we sigh with relief, and do our own thing. Then one person opposite speaks into her mobile phone quietly.... "Hey!" Spits AM irritably, "We're trying to use our emails, could you be quiet please?" Well, most of us already were, but he went red-faced as myself and others try desperately not to guffaw too loudly.... My Event of the Week I got a phone call yesterday. Wrong number. Ok, back to sleep...