Ursus

Oh btw, PP, I'm not sure how many people read the front page to the site, but probably still a good idea to make an entry about it there.

Well, the evidence is primarily from classical Greece and and the cults in the various regions. But he does delve into earlier times (Indo-European, Minoan-Mycenean) as well as later times (Hellenistic, Roman, and even Medieval and modern interpretations). I consider myself a well read pagan, but there were some details here that were new to me. When there is no central body to define and enforce dogma, local cults can experience and envision a deity in slightly different ways. But I think we are talking about different spins on on the same god, not different gods per se. The root of any interpretation of Zeus is the Indo-European Shining Sky Father. Jupiter is based on the same god, which is why the two deities were so similar even before the Romans adopted Greek mythology wholesale.

Sorry to hear it. Glad you're ok. So, what was the deputy like?

Seems to me they would just be huge targets for archers and javelin throwers.

I am not going to do a full review, but I recommend "Zeus" by this professor of classics at Birmingham Uni. It is short and very readable, but crammed with info in a chronological account of the evolution of Zeus. It avoids both Judeo-Christian skepticism, as well as New Age revisionism, and concentrates on primary texts as well as archaeological and linguistic analysis. Zeus is the central figure of Greek religion and mythology, even if gods like Athena, Apollo and Demeter had special cults of interest in classical Greece.

So there was no physical attraction. Antony wanted Cleo for Egypt's wealth and the potency of the Hellenistic monarchy. Cleo wanted Antony for the legions of Rome. Or maybe what the coin doesn't reveal is that Cleo had "great big tracts of land" to quote Monty Python.

You women are all alike. See if I defend your house from intruders.

I'm no linguist, but I don't think anyone stole anything. The languages are similar because they are both grandchildren of a primordial Indo-European tongue.

Yep, precisely. Rome's greatest native contribution was its law (and I believe, related to that, its political organization and ideals on empire). But the Hellenophiles among us are apt to say Rome's greatest achievement was preserving and transmitting the intellectual heritage of Hellas to a greater European civilization. They may have a point, provided of course how much one internalizes the achievements of Hellas.

I would just like to thank Gaius Octavius for the donative that made this possible. I look forward to reading (judging, if I don't enter myself) the entries.

Saint Ursus of the Stairwells shall not, in fact, be running leather-thong clad through the streets with whip in hand to impart Lupercalian fertility on nubile ladies. He took the day off work to spend a charming afternoon with his lass. Alas, the weather systems of the American Northeast had something quite else in mind, and he now finds himself confined to home, a prisoner of ice and snow. But here is wishing a day of romance and bodily warmth to those inclined to celebrate. To all the lovely females on the site, I offer the following virtual affections: And to all the males of the site (of the mainstream sexual orientation, anyway) I hope a different kind of flower succumbs to your attentions:

Much more fetching. Thank you. Now feed me three times a day and rub my belly and I will be your loyal companion forever. You must forgive, however, my tendency to lick my own testicles, and was as my propensity to hump your leg at the most inopportune moments.

There is something poetic about thermopylae that speaks about the Greek, or at least Spartan, soul. But objectively speaking all they did was keep the invasion force in check for three days. "Greatest military achievement" seems a trifle overdone. Salamis was a more significant victory for the Greeks. How about Alesia for Caesar as one of history's greats?

I might participate in this someday. It will be interesting up to a point. Genetics, however, mean far less to me in identity than culture and soul.

"Is that a daggar in your toga, or are you just happy to see me?" -- Julius Caesar "This play needs some excitement." - Abraham Lincoln "I need this parade like I need a hole in my head." - JFK

It is interesting so many picked architecture/engineering, as well as art for some. I believe both fields owe a heavy debt to the Etruscans and Hellenes, even if the Romans placed some unique spins on those fields and - in the case of engineering at least - applied them more systematically.

I am NOT that ugly.

Agreed. I believe Islam, while it treated Christians as second class citizens by forcing them to pay a tax and wear a special dress, nonetheless granted Egyptian Christians more religious freedom than what Byzantium and its virulent dogma offered. And if Christians had to pay a tax under Islam, it was certainly no more (and probably a good deal less) than the drain their economy suffered from being Constantinople's bread basket.

Methinks she might be happier with another woman, anyway.

I find the piquant airs of feline castration preferable to heavy metal. No, just kidding. I love Zeppelin, but could never get into Sabbath.

Indeed. I am not an expert on military strategy, but it is common enough sense to suggest that a bigger empire means longer supply lines, a larger perimeter to defend, etc. The concept of "imperial overstretch" is apt here - at what point do the costs of expanding an empire outweigh the benefits? While there were obviously some economic and strategic reasons included with the invasion of Britannia, as votadini suggests the main reason was cultural - the need of Roman leaders to gain social capital through perceived military victories. In other words, Claudius needed to parade around as a triumphant general to cement his rule. Even with three legions, Brittania was so lightly Romanized that a few generations of Anglo-Saxon occupation exterminated all traces of Roman culturalization. The Roman military towns evolved into the great towns of Medieval England, but aside from this what came of it? I am happy (and jealous) our UK members can visit Roman ruins in their back yard, but with the benefit of hindset I don't see other practical results to the occupation.

I think the people most likely to learn Greek and assume an air of Hellenization were the local native elites - the wealthy and educated - who had to appear to be useful to the new Greco-Macedonian (and later, Roman) administrators. But I don't think rural peasants were so inclined to abandon their millenia old native cultures and languages for that of their overlords. So from the perspective, the urban centers in the East were Hellenized to some degree because of the influx of Greco-Macedonians, and because the local elites living there learned Greek to collaborate. The Roman Empire seemed to function as a web of cities held together by roads and military forces and a common trading language- so this was already in place to some degree thanks to Alexander's successors. But beyond the strictly urban centers, I really don't think Hellenization left much of an impact. This ties in to Mr. Dalby's post above as to why Greek did not supplant the local languages in the East the way Latin did in the West.

I suspect that Heathen sentiments continued for a long time under a thin vaneer of Christianization. These elements were used to criticize the Franks when they acted like loose canons; the same elements were ignored on the occasions when the Franks acted as useful allies. Just my theory. I however don't have a commanding grasp on this era to make a definitive statement.

All I can tell you is that I personally wouldn't step foot in those places unless I were offered severe hazard pay. I also cynically suggest that what happened to the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan is an indication that ancient relics are not safe until certain radical elements in that part of the world are contained. What about greater Eurasia as a field of exploration? Imagine locating once and for all the homeland of the Indo-Europeans, or solving the origins of the Etruscans? There is great honor to be had.

Bingo! I appreciate it on both levels: a literary classic and an ode to Augustus. In the libri section, one of the new books out this month deals with Propaganda in Augustan Rome. Might be of interest to some of you.