Ursus

I guess people who felt the apocalypse was imminent could prove their faith dramatically and go out with a bang. But something else was probably at work. In a time of increasing troubles, Christianity offered a community, a world view, a promise of afterlife - and a charitable organization. All these things still inspire converts 2000 years later.

http://www.arkeologi.uu.se/primaporta/Augustus.htm The Child is actually a cupid standing on a Dolphin. Cupid represents Venus, from whom The Julian clan claimed direct descent through Aeneas, the legendary founder of Rome. The Dolphin is one of Apollo's sacred animals. When Marc Antony claimed to be the god Dionysus, Augustus claimed the protection of the rival god Apollo. The doplhin represents Apollo's patronage of Augustus and his defeat of Marc Antony (and Dionysus) at Actium.

Heartily Seconded! I've been a Romanophile for a long time. But it's Rome's achievements in peace, not in war, that inspire my loyalty. An army without an attractive culture to spread and preserve is just a band of thugs. I think the reason that Rome is known as an EVIL EMPIRE to so many people is that its cultural achievements don't receive enough attention on a popular level as its martial legacy.

You know, I don't see much on Byzantium. That might be another idea.

I'd gladly frequent a sister site on Ancient Greece. I know other people who would, too. Look forward to it whenever it arrives in the future Would it be Classical or more Hellenistic?

Interesting. I desperately need a break from my heady non-fiction studies. I'm putting those Whyte books at the top of my reading list. I tried reading Colleen McCullough's books, but didn't like them. You either love her writing style or don't. I'm in the minority of Romanophiles who didn't, I guess. Regarding the King Arthor legend, when I was a young tyke I read Stephen Lawhead's "Pendragon" epic. It's standard fantasy fluff - the survivors of Atlantis mix with Dark Age Celts in Britain, the druids are a bunch of peaceful nature worshippers, etc. But the epic does start out in Romano-Celtic Britain. The Romans train a Celtic calvary band to fight off Saxon invadors, and that becomes the very early beginnings of the Knights of the Round Table. I say if you can get it free from your library, you might enjoy it as escapist drivel.

I don't see a rebirth of the Roman Empire as possible or even, in some cases, desireable. But I think a rebirth of appreciation for our classical heritage within the West is possible and certainly desired. I'm all for a certain multi-cultural awareness, but not at the expense of classical studies. I think North America, Europe and Australia would do well to realize they have more in common with each other via a common cultural ancestor than they have differences.

Hmmm. I don't know. I'm trying to imagine a Roman Empire where Antony and Cleopatra had defeated Octavian. The Empire most likely would have been ruled from Alexandria by a heavily centralized Oriental court. The Emperor would claim to be the god Dionysus incarnate, and the Empress would claim to a living Isis. I guess with all pretenses abandoned to traditional Roman Republican government, with a veritable god-king in charge of the resources of the East, you might make the case that Antony and Cleopatra would have brought the entire Roman world under an iron heel. But history is full of what ifs. :-) What Augustus did was inspire a rebirth of culture and tradition (no matter how superficial or self-serving it may have been in some cases) and he cautioned his successors to keep the peace rather than expand the borders. He set the general trend for the next two hundred years or so.

This thread did rather poorly, considering we have well over a 100 registered and presumably literate members. However, I ordered another round of books, and within 2 or 3 weeks I'll be compiling my own suggested beginner's list of reading material. Given all the classical themed movies that Hollywood is producing these days, sites like this might experience greater trafffic from those whose interest has been piqued. For those who want to study Greece and Rome beyond the superficial aspects, I feel having a ready made reading list to show them might come in handy.

This place might have something, it's the only possibility I know first-hand: http://www.ancient-empires.com/romgreekem.html I've bought stuff from there before, and they do overcharge you on shipping. Buyer Beware.

Well, Christ was a Jew, speaking to a Jewish audience, and Christianity started as a somewhat heretical cult within the Jewish community. This gradually changed as Hellenized Jews starting taking it to wider audiences. Saul of Tarsus was one. He was a Greek speaking Jew and a Roman citizen, and he helped bring Christianity from the Jewish community to the greater community of the Roman Empire. Saul often preached Christ's message in terms of Greco-Roman philosophy (Logos, and so forth ... the "word" as preached by John) so elements of Stoicism and Neoplatonism were grafted onto it. This made it more appreciable to Greco-Roman minds. Christianity is a mix of the Hebrew and the Hellene. The Christian community was pretty close knit in its early years. And the charity and community it provided would have been appealing to many people suffering the decline and fall of the Roman Empire. Then Imperator Constantine decides to convert. History records him as having a religious vision which influenced his decision. I don't doubt he experienced something. But there's been some talk about how he felt that upon conversion, Bishops could deliver those close knit tax paying Christian communities to his rule. I'm sure this was also a factor. From that point on Christianity is increasingly tied to government. It ceases to be something of a counter-culture movement, as it were, and instead becomes the culture in so many words. Freed from imperial oppression, Christians divide into sects and start having some disagreements about what exactly Christianity it. Eventually one version of Christianity somewhat forcibly triumphs over the others at the councils of Nicene, etc, and that version is the version that survives today. And thus it would remain in Europe until the fifteenth through twentieth centuries saw gradual secularization of culture.

Roman Britain fascinates me for some reason. I'll have to read it.

I'm in the Northeast. I sometimes think people in the deep South might as well come from another country. They tend to be more conservative in politics and culture, more ...enthusiastic... in religion, and their version of English is not always something I can comprehend with ease. People in southern California tend to be rather liberal in politics and culture, more ...progressive... in religion, and their version of English is not always something I can comprehend with ease. Yes, I think regional differences are pretty appreciable.

Saw the first three of them. Spartacus: One of my absolute favorite movies, due mostly to the memorable performances and the stirring battle scenes. Not quite historically accurate, but good for what it was. However, the theme of Pagan Rome being an evil tyrannical empire that should fall to the progressive forces of history, as stated in the prologue, was a little overdone I thought. Ben Hur: A movie that is rightly praised for a wide variety of cinematic triumphs. However, the portrayel of pagan Rome as an evil overlord that will eventually succumb to a more humanitarian religious order is again present in the film. The view is a bit one sided I feel. This seemed to be the standard presentation of ancient Rome in media until very recently. Gladiator: Loved the sets and costumes. But didn't think much of everything else. Just another Hollywood blockbuster more interested in action than history. If Rome is treated like a violent place (which it was) at least it's not another film that is seen through a specifically hostile perspective. Can anyone make an epic film about the Roman Empire that also shows the benefits of Roman imperialism, rather than just the downside of Roman imperialism?

The Oxford Classical Dictionary, 3rd edition. Edited by Simon Hornblower and Antony Spawforth In a previous review I outlined Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome by the two Adkins brothers, as well as their companion volume on Greece. Those two books together constitute a handy and affordable compendium on classical society. However, if you want to get really serious, consider buying the latest edition of the Oxford Classical Dictionary. This a monster of a reference that leaves no stone in antiquity overturned. There are no pictures, no diagrams. Just 1640 pages of articles written by the very best experts from around the world. The reader will find hundreds of entries in alphabetical order. Topics are taken from the major areas of the classical world: Politics and History, Military, Economy and Society, Religion and Mythology, Geography, Science, Law and Government, Philosophy and the Arts. ...read the full review of the Oxford Classical Dictionary

I guess it shows that empires are built on more than military power. Hannibal could smash as many armies as he wanted, Rome could always raise more due to the treaties it had with its allies requiring them to levy troops. I'd say the brilliance of Roman imperialism rested in its diplomacy and political machinations. And the Roman legions should probably be remembered more for their construction projects than their military victories (or defeats).

This isn't quite my area of expertise, but I'd put Alexander at the top followed somewhere by Caesar and Hannibal. Don't know if a naval commander counts as a "general" or not, but if it weren't for Themistocles we'd all be speaking Persian.

I don't know about world government, as I can't even envision such a system seriously. But in general I like a system with a strong executive figure at the helm, an advisory body or policy making body of senior statesmen surrounding him (or her), and a forum for limited democractic involvement. I like a strong central power, although I do see regions or provinces as having to retain some control over their affairs.

I think I'll wait a year or two and maybe this game will decrease in price from a ludicrous $50. I would like to have it, though. It's as close to the Roman army as I'll ever get. ;-)

The Gods of Ancient Rome There comes a point when any serious Romanophile has to study Roman religion outside of an elementary school mythology class. The Romans, after all, were a deeply pious people. Religion was not separated from everyday life, it was a constant in everyday life. Every communal activity had a religious aspect and every religious activity was aimed at some level of community. To reduce Roman religion to a mere carbon copy of Greek religion, as is often opined, or to treat Roman mythology as the childish delusions of a primitive people, is to ignore the religious genius of our cultural ancestors. Regardless of whether one or not sympathizes with Roman paganism, one should at least appreciate its place in religious history and its reflection of Roman mentality... ...read the full review of Gods of Ancient Rome from Robert Turcan

Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome Adkins and Adkins The two Adkins have produced a wonderful compendium on the totality of life in Ancient Rome. This delightful tome serves an excellent introduction to Rome for beginners, or as a handy quick reference for more experienced students. The Book is divided into nine major areas: Government, Military, Geography, Municipal affairs, Travel and Trade, Language and Writing, Religion, Economics, and Everyday life. Each of these broad categories is furthered reduced into logical sub-categories. The articles are concise but by no means lacking. There are plenty of photographs, illustrations and maps to provide visual aids. Every library should have a copy; it would be a wonderful resource for students researching subjects on Ancient Rome. Obviously the book is meant to be a brief reference, not an encyclopedia of minute details. Those wishing more in-depth study on any section will have to consult more scholarly reading. Extensive bibliographies at the end of each section suggest resources to do just that! This book, which already serves as a great introduction, handily provides references to more advanced study. This is honestly the first book I would recommend to a blossoming Romanophile. After reading more than the four hundred pages cover to cover, an individual will garner enough sense to know whether or not they wish to continue their studies. They will already have in their possession a bibliography to continue those studies if they so chose. To those of us already well versed in the subject, it is still sometimes necessary to have an accessible aid on general topics. The Two Adkins have produced a similar book on Ancient Greece, and I highly recommend that as well. Every good Roman should be conversant with Hellenic culture, after all. Buying the two books together will be a brilliant introduction to classical society.

My obvious answer is Augustus. If the Republic had to fall to a warlord (and to be bluntly honest it most likely had to), thank the gods it fell to someone who ruled with relative restraint and a sense of cultural aesthetics. Augustus is a nice example of (mostly) benevolent despotism.

No Caesar, and then no Augustus. I think another warlord would probably have taken over the government, perhaps even Pompei. But could that hypothetical warlord have tamed the Gauls like Caesar, or inspired a rebirth of culture and peace like Augustus? Don't know. But I shudder to think what the Empire would have been like if a less capable individual were presiding over it in its infancy.

I was offering the suggestion more to lovedone. Sorry. I guess I could quote things to provide greater context.

I'll definitely read anything on Augustus that's half way decent since he's informally my hero. I read some books this past few weeks that I'll try to review. But if I never get around to it ... I'll say that _A Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome_ by Adkins and Adkins is an excellent general survey of Roman civilization. Also, for anyone interested in the serious study of Roman paganism, I recommend _The Gods of Ancient Rome_ by Robert Turcan.