Ursus

I think those on a track to University should have several years of Latin or Greek. It's part of our heritage. As for modern foreign languages, I suppose schools in heavily Hispanic areas should give a few years of Spanish.

Delenda Est Cartago!

This is sweet, gents. Good work. I'm already trying out the new blog option, too.

Edited to add: Oaths Oaths were considered sacred, under the provinces of Gods like Zeus and Apollo. Greeks often swore oaths to each other and to the state as proof of loyalty. Breaking an oath was considered truly dishonorable. If someone were discovered to have broken an oath, usually they had to atone by dedicating a statue of whatever deity the oath was sworn to in the temple of that deity. Needless to say, such statues were extremely expensive. Oaths were not broken lightly. *** Also edited to add the bit about Sappho under bisexuality. Thanks for the suggestion, Carolyn. :-)

Preface The civilization of ancient Greece is hard to define. It runs a stretch of time from the pre-history of some lost Minoan civilization to the incorporation of the Hellenistic East into the Roman Empire (with the Eastern Roman Empire surviving as a different but related entity until 1453). When most of people think of Ancient Greece, they think of the timeline from the end of the Greek Dark Ages to the rise of Alexander the Great

No, there is a not an existing forum on the topic. I once proposed a "Daily Life" forum to include things like this, but I'm not sure if there is enough interest to sustain it.

The sacking by Latin crusaders.

The Roman Empire had been making increasing use of allied Germanic troops for some time. The Romans couldn't stop the massive immigrations, but they could put a vaneer of Romanization on some of the tribes and use them as buffers against other tribes. These Germanics were therefore used to thinking of themselves as belonging to Roman realm in some fashion .... they did take up some measure of Roman law and government. In fact, most of the Germanic tribes had not come to destroy the Roman way of life, but merely seize the riches of Roman civilization for themselves. We are told by some sources that when some of the Germanic tribes took over, they could be found dressed in togas and living in country villas like the Roman governors before them. Clearly they accepted those aspects of Roman civilization they found comfortable. All they had to do was live in the shadow of the still functioning Roman government in the East, the part of the Roman empire still too rich and defensible for them to carve up completely. Of course, the Roman influence on these tribes was strongest on the continent and in heavily Romanized provinces. In Britain, the far flung outpost of the empire, most traces of Romanatis soon collapsed under the onslaught of the Anglo-Saxons.

What disgusts me is the fact they couldn't move enough troops in on time to prevent looting and protect rescue workers. The world's greatest superpower can occupy Iraq but can't clean up its backyard .... something is very wrong.

As far away from Rome is possible, keeping busy with various construction projects and serving as centers of Romanatis for the provinces. The army's value as a cultural weapon seems to be severely underrated....

Read it in translation a long time ago .... have been meaning to reread it in the original Latin although my Latin skills aren't up to the task. Read the abridged version, as the original is rather wordy and in some places rather outdated. I enjoyed it greatly, but not sure if I agree fully with some of the author's assumptions.

I'm not going to get into the evolutionary destiny of human nature, because I'm not sure if such a thing can really be proven one way or another (as I understand evolution, it has no specific goal in mind, it's merely a reponse to random external stimuli ... but regardless, I'm not going to view geopolitics through an anthropological or biological perspective). Caesar's conquest just wasn't about building more social capital. Romans have long memories, and the near destruction of Rome by Gallic tribes three hundred years before was still very fresh in everyone's minds. Romans always lived in fear of the ever burgeoning tribal populations to the north that had a penchant for settling in their backyard. To subdue the barbarians and make them citizens and subjects of the empire rather than the destroyers and overlords of the Roman Empire .... that was the charge of the warlords. The "mass murder" of Roman imperialism seems to be mild compared to the depredations and chaos of the later collapse of the empire, and it certainly seems mild compared to how later empires would go about their foreign policy ....including the European settlers on the North American continent.

I always thought that sooner or later a super hurricane would wipe out Florida .... but I wasn't expecting New Orleans. It's going to be strange not hearing people say every Spring that they're heading down to Orleans for the mardi gras.

I suppose Rome would have gone on to have an empire (minus Gaul and Britain) with Pompeii or one of his successors at his head. But the Celtic unity that existed briefly under Caesar's war would have quickly evaporated once the threat was removed. The argumentative Celtic tribes would have quickly resumed their old ways, and as Viggen mentioned would have had to eventually face Germanic invaders without the benefit of Roman organization. Since France played such a pivotal role in Medieval European history, a France that had not been dominated by Roman influence and Roman Catholicism might have given birth to a different kind of Continental Europe.

I consider Roman Catholicism and its derivatives on topic in a Roman religious forum. Although I'm not exactly sure what we are supposed to do with this particular mammoth cut and paste job.

The most recent copy of "Archaeology" magazine had an nice article on the topic. Lots of pics on the ruins. Apparently there was a temple to Zeus there that was bigger than the one in Olympia.

I will wash and wax people's cars for incentive to post. :-)

Aside from my half-dead blog, it's the only site I really visit anymore or contribute to. When we get free blogs from the site I'll transfer mine here. I have a few blog friends interested in ancient cultures and religions, maybe I can persuade them to get blogs and hang out. I know a lot of Hellenophiles who have overlapping interests with Roman concerns. If there were a separate sub-forum for Hellenic and Hellenistic histories and cultures and their influences on Rome, it might attract that crowd.

I would be very interested in reading this book, Viggen. If you guys add it to the "free book" list I'll jump at the chance to review it. If not I will get around to reading it whenever time and finances permit.

I couldn't live without Google ...

I agree with your views, Mal. And welcome to the community.

This is the first time in 5 years I wish I had HBO. Let me know if its worth watching.

There would still be an empire, and it would have been less conservative than the one Augustus erected in the face of Caesar's assassination. However, I doubt if an aging and ill Caesar would have lived long enough to see the conquest of Asia, provided Rome even had the means to do so.

I pinned it for future reference. If anyone cares to add to the list of online resources, feel free.

Scandie, I moved this topic from the Peregrini fourm to the Temple and pinned it above to give it more press. Hope you don't mind.