Ursus

Hate to be cynical, but there is an issue of trust. If a vendor sells shoddy merchandise, or if the buyer does not pay in full, would the argument be between the two parties, or would UNRV have some liability as the host of the exchange? I only buy from well-established online vendors that have clear cut policies of liability and mechanisms for disputes. A marketplace is nice in theory, but if there are problems how would you fix them and who would get the blame? That's pretty much the question on anything involving money.

If California ever breaks away from the Union, Ahnuld can be president of his own country -- a country that would be the fifth largest in the world economically.

"I wonder what people did before the internet when they were seeking that." Every age had its trivial amusements for the masses. But it's only in the last two centuries or so that leisure became an all consuming passion. Before technology gave us a surplus of wealth and food, most people worked all day long to try to survive. Then too, the world used to be a lot more religious. I think work and religion consumed most people's lives until about the mid 1800's.

I've also had the experience of being told what to do by people who don't know the first thing about the job. Damn near made me want to quit.

I work just for a paycheck, my job means nothing to me. I'm not here not just because I don't like my job, but because I don't like people in general. I don't know many people that seriously enjoy ancient history. I didn't even know many in college. Most people in real life don't share my interests, that's why I'm on the internet.

In a not-so-distant apocalyptic future, the evil artificial intelligence of google.net rules the ruins of the world. Humanity is trod beneath its mechanical heel. But then one day a leader arises to gather the shattered remnants of mankind and stage a valient resistance. Google sends a search bot back 40 years in time to find the leader's parents and erase them from history before he is even born. Endlessly the search bot roams the internet, trying to locate its targets...

I was always struck by the fact that when the king of Pergamum died in 133, he simply left his country to the Romans in his will. With Roman economic, military and diplomatic pressure bearing down on the Hellenistic east, he simply figured to go with the flow and hand over the keys to his kingdom without a fight. Surely this was one of the most spectacular events in history. A rich kingdom being handed over to a foreign power without a drop of blood shed, because the strategic clamp around his area was tighter than a drum. War is basically a means to an end rather than an end onto itself. War is costly, strategy is usually more profitable in the long run. The Romans proved they were strategic thinkers and could gain great boons without even fighting battles. "To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill." Well, Confucius would have looked at the Pergamum incident and smiled at the Romans. :-)

If you build it, it will come.

Most scholars trace Vesta and her Hellenic counterpart Hestia back to a Proto-Indo-European goddess of sacred fire.

Turn the question around. What did Rome NOT do for us? Look at Europe and is cultural legacy. You'll probably find a few major ancient cultural zones. Roman Greek Germanic Celtic Slavic Of that list I think the two most important were Greece and Rome. If Rome carried on the torch of Greece, which it did to some extent, then Rome gets credit for that. The Greco-Roman legacy dwarfs the other cultural legacies. The Celtic legacy is pretty much confined to the British isles, the Germanic legacy to Britain and its former colonies. Slavic civilization owes something to the Greeks for their alphabet, religion and system of government. On the Continent of Europe it would seem a combined Greco-Roman legacy prevails.

That was one of the best things on the internet I ever read. Thanks, Viggin.

Right. And if you were an educated Greek slave working in administration, you probably had more wealth and power than many freemen. ($10 mil is indeed peanuts compared to the fortunes of many captains of American industry, such as Bill Gates or Ross perot. Many Hollywood stars get $10 mil a movie.)

My thoughts are the Romans survived the sacking and near destruction of their city by the Gauls. They went on several centuries later to subdue Gaul. If Hannibal had stormed Rome he might have done some serious damage. But I doubt it would have been the end of Rome. They would have survived and rebuilt. And eventually sought revenge. But how history would have changed with a delayed Roman empire is anyone's guess.

Well, a Roman male being a "fool for love" was honestly a grave offense in the eyes of Rome. We moderns may have different cultural values, but for a Roman male to lose himself over a female - and a foreign ruler at that - was considered the ultimate unmanliness to the Romans themselves. I think that's why many of his troops simply deserted him. That's probably not even the worse you could say about him. He just didn't claim Dionysus and Osiris as patron deities --- he thought he <i>was</i> Dionysus/Osiris, come to rule on earth with Cleopatra, whom he regarded as Aphrodite/Isis incarnate. He was steeped in the worst excesses of Orientalism and Oriental despotism, unlike Augustus who was fairly moderate. If he had won and been allowed to lay the foundations of the empire, Western civilization would be a different place, and probably not for the better.

Oh, I think the general plan was to pray to the gods that things would go back to "normal", that time would stand still, and that the ineffectual Republic would continue under its delusions. That had been pretty much the master plan of Roman conservatives for generations. That is why killing a man of vision like Caesar was a crime. Dante was right to put Brutus and Cassius on the lowest level of hell.

I thought Beowulf was anglo-saxon. But the Arthurian legends (which were oral legends for a while and then finally written down) concern semi-Romanized Celts fighting Saxon hordes. The history of those legends is fascinating and certainly one sees the shadow of Rome in them.

Hail Schwartzeneggar!

Interesting. I wonder to which deity it was.

I'm not sure it was so much either, though certainly pious Romans both respected and feared the gods they belived in. But it was done largely for expectation of gain. They thought the gods helped grow their crops, grant victory in battle, and heal diseases, etc. Paganism has a certain mercantalist aspect to it. You believe gods xyz have some kind of power over the universe, so you want to get on their good side. If you're on their good side, you supposedly gain their favor. If you're on their bad side, they ignore you - or worse, harm you. If a sect of Romans were faithful in offerings to a certain deity, but something bad happened to them regardless of their placations, it was assumed the deity had not lived up to his side of the relationship, and the followers were free at that point to take all the cult objects of the deity in question and defile them in anger. This sometimes happened. This is probably the "blasphemy" you speak of. But blasphemy is really the wrong term ... it's more like dissastisified customers breaking a contract and smearing the business reputation of the CEO concerned.

Citizens were granted the right to use the new blog and gallery features from the upgraded forum. It was thought it was best to have a small group to test these new features. After it has been tested, other regular members may be promoted to citizens to share in these new features; such promotions will be at the discretion of the three admins.

It works now, thanks. :-)

Hey, it's all good. I's not favorite Roman quotes, but favorite Latin quotes. As long as it's in Latin, it's fair game. At least that's how I interpret it. ;-)

Bibat ille, bibat illa, bibat servus et ancilla, bibat hera, bibut herus: ad bibendum nemo serus. (Let him drink and her drink and the serf have one, the maid too, and the mistress and master - no one is too late for a jugfull) Dum nos fata sinunt oculos satiemus amore. (As long as the fates allow, let us fill out eyes with love). Disputet philosophus vacuo cratere, sciat, quia minus est scire quam habere; (If the philosopher conducts his discourse with an empty cup, he will come to understand that knowing is less than owning)

Problem .... I can't send posts to the graveyard. Error message: You cannot move topics into this forum as it does not allow posts to be made I guess the board doesn't realize the whole point of the graveyard is not being able to post in it.

If you want an excellent crash course in Roman civilization, I recommend "Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome" by Adkins and Adkins.