Ursus

Maybe he didn't because it wasn't required reading for this thread. Are you the paid publicist for this Jesus = Caesar book?

If you read one of the pinned topics at the top of the Temple Forum, you'll see a brief essay of Mithraism followed by recommendations for reading. In general, the cult meant different things at different times and places. But it seemed to be heavy on astrology, with Mithras acting as the soteriological element that elevated men's souls into the highest heaven. And the old view of it being a competitor to Christianity is false. It didn't have the numbers or inclination because: * it excluded women, half of the population * it met in very small groups * it was a religion for soldiers and people connected to the imperial establishment, a relatively small percentage of the population. To be blunt, early Christianity was often at odds with Roman culture and government. Mithraism, by comparison, was a Roman cult par excellence, whose values were a deification of Romanatis, and whose members were fiercely loyal to the emperor and imperial society. Thus, while they had a few superficial things in common as far as rites and theology, they were completey different in tone as far as social values, and most likely did not try to "compete" with one another.

This has honestly been an interesting discussion. I have delighted in the merits of it. However, it's starting to grow beyond it's original bounds as a discussion of the de-Romanization of legions. Discussion of the merits or lack thereof of Christianity in Roman culture could best be done on the Temple forum.

Britain was always the least Romanized of the Western provinces anyway, especially the further one got away from London. The constant presence of three legions - such a large number for such a small piece of real estate - is probably what kept it in check. While there were semi-Romanized Celts who were attached to the Roman elite in the urban areas, they were probably a minority. Once the legions left it doesn't seem like there was much to remind the citizens of Roman culture and civilization. And so it crashed hard during the fall.

No worries, friend. We've easily banned some trolls and malcontents.

Well, the two stereotypes pretty much play off against each other. Sad, isn't it? Oh, well.

Uh ... far be it from me to suggest that Christians and Agnostics should attach pagan deities to their persona. What I was suggesting though was simply using civilian ranks of historical origin for the hierarchy rather than the current military grades. For instance: Someone who just signed up .... citizen without the vote Someone who has been here long enough to warrant using the blog features and such ... citizen with the vote Then as we move up the hierarchy we can start using things like decurion, equestrian, senator, princeps senatus , triumvir, etc. Maybe the class could be handed out by the admins on a combination of quality and quantity as opposed to mere quantity. Something to replace the old reputation point system. Just a thought. If it proves too unworkable, never mind.

Maybe we can restructure the ranks to a more civilian aspect? Citizen without the vote --- basic membership, no access to blogs and such Citizen with the vote: like current citizen, having access to blogs and such Then maybe decurions, equestrians and Senators for senior members. And of course, the site headed by our Triumvirs ...

I shall welcome a colleague to the praetorship if and when that happens. Having said that, I have thus far never had a problem moderating .... aside from frequent apathy to the content of the Legion folder.

Maybe America is closer to Carthage. Both were colonies of older powers that grew into major powers in their own right. Both were great commercial and naval powers which channeled that economic power into a considerable military.

Well, my ancestors were mostly Germanic-speaking backwoods peasants. Their last name actually means "bear" in German, which was then Anglocized when they came to America. From there "Ursus" is an easy translation, which is what I use for my own handle.

I can't remember if we did anything special. I suppose we all had real world obligations. Believe me though .... after a few hours of my extended family I'd much rather say to Hades with the Christmas season and come online for a bit.

I was thinking of going as a Roman Senator to work, since we're allowed to dress up. Only problem is it's starting to get cold here, I'm not sure a toga will be enough.

I haven't seen some of the Old Timers in ages. I suppose as many of them are school age, the school season has taken their time. At least I hope that rather than lack of interest is the reason. Fatboy is still around, which is good. I miss Scanderberg and a few others. On the other hand, we get new members everyday. We will reach 1000 members by the end of the year. Maybe the 1000th member should get a free balloon, or something.

I think it was done mostly to alleviate the kind of conditions that might inspire Soviet backed communist regimes to gain influence in post war Europe. But having said that, I do regard it as America's best foreign policy issue. It blended a variety of pressing geopolitical, economic and humanitarian concerns. Unfortunately I don't think our foreign policy leaders have had quite the wisdom and vision since then. Even worse, it seems to be largely forgotten among many Europeans who can't seem to find a single thing to redeem America from its "evil imperialist warmonger" stereotype.

As this topic is broader than religion, I moved it from the temple forum to the ethics forum.

Live in a small town along the Pennsylvania/Maryland border. Live in PA, work for a MD company. Lot's of scenic beauty here. But not many jobs. Rural Pennsylvania's "culture" is also closer to Alabama than the rest of the Northeast.

Uh ..... ok.....

Serapis was, for all intents and purposes, a hybrid of several Egyptian and Hellenic gods. Isis for her part was a blending of various Egyptian gods which were then identified with various Hellenic God. Ptolemy Soter basically created the Serapis cult as a way for both his Hellenic and Egyptian subjects to have a common ground. The Egyptians didn't fall for it, they much preferred their own uncorrupted traditions. The cult did catch on with Greeks and later Romans. The magic and mysticism gave them something mostly absent from their own native religions.

I read the first book of the Whyte series. Pretty decent, but I didn't continue. I think Whyte takes a bit too ultra rational approach to the subject .... when dealing with a legend shrouded in mystery I don't mind a little fantasy and magic.

I also hear there used to be a big Jewish temple there from which the Romans nonetheless made sacrifices to Jupiter. Not there anymore ...wonder what happened to it ...

Uh ... let's try not to proselytize in the temple. Keep the discussion confined to history and academics. Thanks.

We discuss religion here all the time. As long as the discussion is kept academic rather than as commandment to convert, I don't think the mature and civil people of this site will have any problems with it. ****** On another note.... Samhain as seen by a modern Celt, the origins of the holiday and relevance to modern Halloween. http://www.imbas.org/articles/samhain.html

I was hoping for a little more detail and scholarship. :-)

You might have to go to a well-stocked university library to find anything substantial. In general, the first people in Spain were the Iberians who go back as far as 4000 BC. They had a knowledge of bronze work and traded metals with people all over the Mediterranean. Celts from Gaul swept into Iberia and took over large parts of it. The Celts fused with the native Iberians to form the Celtiberians. The Celtiberians carried on the fine tradition of trade. They made nice pottery and metal work. They lived primarily in hill forts, and there doesn't seem to be much evidence of urbanization. During the ascendency of Carthage, a string of trading colonies were founded in Iberia. This culminated in New Carthage. The Celtiberians fell under the shadow of Carthage. Celtiberians made up a lot of the foot soldiers of Carthage's forces against Rome. Cathage lost the Second Punic War and Iberia was divided into two Roman provinces. However, the native peoples living in their hill forts fought a constant guerilla war against Rome. It wasn't until the age of Augustus that Spain became pacified. During this time frame towns were built from which spread Roman culture and Roman control. The primary Roman interest in Spain seems to have been the mines and metalworks of the natives. The Visigothic invasions later ended Roman control of the province, though for a time the Byzantine empire held parts of Spain. "The Ancient Celts" by Barry Cunliffe has a whole chapter on Celtiberians.