Ludovicus

Salve Professor, My question is this. What did the Roman Forum look like around the year 700? Deserted or transformed? Thank you.

Italian wasn't late in developing...just late in being recorded. There's no reason to think that the entire peninsula kept with Latin in their day-to-day speaking while everyone else had moved on to local Romance. Also: I believe that the Oaths of Strasburg have now been seen as 'questionable', in the sense that it seems that they are fakes...10th or 11th century fakes, if I recall correctly, but not of 9th century. Let me look through my files and notes, just to make sure. I stand corrected. Spoken Italian developed as quickly or even more quickly (due to the fractured political scene in Italy) as other Romance languagesd. It was the recorded language that continued to feel the pull of Latin for so long. Thank you for pointing this out.

If you want to see how Latin evolved into the Romance Languages (French, Italian, Catalan, Sardinian, Portuguese, Romanian, etc.) one of the best resources for the lay person is Mario Pei's book "Latin and the Romance Languages." This work has long been out of print but many libraries in the US still have it on loan. Pei's book is replete with sample texts which show the slow evolution from popular Latin to the various Latin derived languages. French appeared first in the 9th century with the Oaths of Strasburg. Italian was late in developing because of the historic prestige of Latin.

Please, can we not call them imperial. if you really look at what we've been doing and what imperialism is, then we aren't imperial, at least not in a territorial sense, perhaps culturaly, but the middle east and the U.S. are culturaly imperialistic Not imperialistic? We invaded a country that never attacked us, toppled its leadership, occupied its territory, and installed our own military base. Once in the country, we dictated that the Iraqis pay the costs of our invasion from profits from their oil. Then we threatened the surrounding countries of Syria and Iran with attack. "If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it's a duck."

If the U.S. can stay on course and accomplish this policy, then I truly think with friendly governments in the middle east, it will be more feasible to implement real peace between Israel and Palestine. This is madness. Haven't we seen the effects of Bush's imperial plans played out these last few days? Iraq and the Middle East are totally destabilized by the American invasion and occupation. As a US citizen whose tax money has been squandered to pay for this folly, enough with these invasion fantasies! This is a forum where empire is discussed daily. Look to my country, the US, and see the results of empire building: 48 million citizens without health insurance, 20 million eat from soup kitchens or donated food.

How did a Roman prove he or she was a citizen of the Empire? I doubt there was a certificate on paper in someone's safe deposit box at the bank. Were Roman citizens recorded in a birth index at the local tabularium? I'm sure disputes arose over who was and wasn't a citizen. How were these disputes resolved?

When did Rome stop the practice of crucifixion? Is there any documentary evidence of it being outlawed?

Want to start some really serious rioting and foment even more bloodshed? Give the Hagia Sophia back to the Christians. If you think the row over the Mohammed cartoons was bad, your idea of forcing Turkey to hand over this beautiful building to Christian powers would ignite the entire Moslem world all the more. Haven't enough people died this past week? If your line of thinking is correct, Spain should be kicked out of the UE until it returns all the synagogues and mosques it expropriated after 1492 to their original owners. I'm a Christian and I can't believe what an exotic and ill-conceived idea is being discussed here. Turkey needs to come up to UE standards in regards to human rights before becoming a UE member. Returning the Hagia Sophia to the Vatican or the Greek Orthodox Church, no!

I read the book and found it to be a badly written mystery. The first "act" really stretches the imagination.

Thanks for the map. Horrifying, yet sobering recognition of the imbecility of that boast, "mission accomplished."

From Montesquieu and then Thomas Jefferson: "You cannot maintain a republic and empire simultaneously." I think this quote best summarizes the trajectory of Roman history and the history of other nations that began as republics and then became empires. Imperialism undermines freedom and civic values in the Republic. Look at the example of Rome. So many small Italian farmers ruined by importation of tribute grain from the Empire. Hundreds of thousands of unemployables in Rome under the Empire. Daily blood spectacles just to keep the masses distracted from their miserable social condition. I won't venture to say that Roman imperialism offered nothing in return, but I do contend that it ended republicanism.

Sorry for the above post. Seems like Berman's book hasn't been released yet.

Has anyone read this book? "Dark Ages in America: The Final Phase of Empire" by Morris Berman If so, what do post Roman Dark Ages and the US variety have in common?

When did the Romans end the practice of crucifixion? Seems like the Empire under Christian rule would have outlawed. Is there a record of an edict?

When did the Romans stop crucifying? Is there an edict or any other kind of written evidence?

Romae Romane Age "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." Literally: At Rome, Romanly do. Eight words in English, but three words in Latin. That's one of the beauties of the Latin Language. Here's another one of my favorites often found on tombstones: Hodie mihi, cras tibi. "Today to me, tomorrow to you."

Dear Friends, "Lingua Latina" is the corrent term for "the Latin Language." Please correct.

People sure get uptight about that whole 'American' thing. Its not the first time I've seen it but allow me to illustrate how it drives me nuts..... To all people of the world including our own citizenry: Americans are from America. We are not United Statesians or USA'ers, United Statesers, Unitedisans, Staticans or even Americans of the United States. We are Americans. A Mexican is a Mexican. He may be a North American like Americans, because North America is a continent, but he is not simply an American. Europeans are Europeans because that is the continent that they share but an Austrian is not also French. If someone says American, the implication is simple... they mean someone from the United States. If someone says South American, they could mean a Brazilian, Argentinian, Columbian or any particular nationality within South American, but people do not refer to Brazilians as Americans. Tell a Mexican or a Canadian that they are not Americans and see what you get. I use the term American for myself as much as anyone here in the US, but I also concede that there are others on the two American continents who claim the same right. Most of them who speak Spanish will use "mexicano," "chileno," etc, but they are also firm in stating that they are Americans. The most exact term in Spanish for a citizen of the US is "estadounidense."

People sure get uptight about that whole 'American' thing. Its not the first time I've seen it but allow me to illustrate how it drives me nuts..... To all people of the world including our own citizenry: Americans are from America. We are not United Statesians or USA'ers, United Statesers, Unitedisans, Staticans or even Americans of the United States. We are Americans. A Mexican is a Mexican. He may be a North American like Americans, because North America is a continent, but he is not simply an American. Europeans are Europeans because that is the continent that they share but an Austrian is not also French. If someone says American, the implication is simple... they mean someone from the United States. If someone says South American, they could mean a Brazilian, Argentinian, Columbian or any particular nationality within South American, but people do not refer to Brazilians as Americans.

Sorry, I see that the subtopic is units of measures.

The worst legacy of Rome to America? Do you mean the US or the American continents of North America and South America? We US citizens are not the only Americans in the world. A Mexican is an American, a Chilean is an American, etc. Probably the worst legacy of Rome to any of the Americas is the lie that you can maintain a republic and an empire at the same time.

For anyone thinking that monasticism was only about copying texts and praying, please grab a copy of Richard Hodges' book "Light in the Dark Ages: The Rise and Fall of San Vincenzo al Volturno." The monks of San Vincenzo, Monte Cassino, and perhaps other Italian monasteries took on the task of recolonizing ("incastellamento" in Italian) much of the 8th and 9th century post-Roman countryside in today's Abruzzo region in Italy. This book changed my idea of the "Dark Ages" in Southern Italy. http://www.sanvincenzoalvolturno.it/english/pages/storia.htm in English http://www.sanvincenzoalvolturno.it/ Original website with beautiful graphics, in Italian for the book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/080143416...5Fencoding=UTF8

How curious a post the above. Who copied and archived much of Latin literature while educational standards all but disappeared in the former Roman Empire? The Benedictines preserved much of Roman agricultural science as well.

Have you ever read Paul? "Slaves obey your masters"? "Wives obey your husbands"? Christianity did nothing to curtail patriarchy, and patriarchy ruled Europe until about the Industrial Revolution. I believe Paul also said: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ ... " ~Galatians 3:28~

I see evidence that early Christianity laid some ground work for democracy. Didn't Christianity help curtail the power of Roman patriarchy? Didn't it limit, at least in word, the power of the Roman "pater familias" over his immediate family? What about infanticide, another perrogative of the head of the household? I think an additional point can be made that Christianity gave some power to women. Both male and female Romans were required to marry under Augustus's edicts. I believe there were strict fines for violators. Under Christianity, women had another option. And then we come to the idea of justice. Emperor and slave had to answer to the same final judgment. I admit that church practice, especially after Constantine made Christianity the state religion, was far from blameless. Yet, when certain ideas are let loose, they take on a life of their own.