Neos Dionysos

Oh Jet Lag... you harsh mistress of domination... why must you be so powerful over me... I need sleep.... will report on the trip and work then... and send in another review... Phil

I've learned something... good academic books are not cheap... and... if you really can't dish out the cash, then I do as my prof's do... get a copy, (from a library or something), and get to a photocopy machine and just go to down. Though, I have yet to do this, since I just HAVE to have the book and so, sadly I end up dishing out the cash... even for the high end ones... Curse my addiction to books!

Yeah... who knows... I might take a semester out here in Turkey. Or Grad school... either way I have learned so much this past month... about archeology, myself, an Islamic Culture... and life outside the bubble that can be the US... I would not trade this trip for anything... Phil

Indeed, though Antiochus I put them in thier place first in 275, (IIRC), where for his actions he received the title 'Soter' or Savior/Protector. The Galatians are a nightmare to understand...

So, a nice update on what work has actually been done. I was initally assigned to sketch and draw the site we first visited and my professor liked it so much he wants me to just continue the job and has given me graph paper, measuring sticks, all of this stuff to draw and document illustrations for the work on the Galatian Hillforts. I have not taken any drafting classes etc, and I was told I should since I have a hand and an eye for drawing excavations and that if I continue and hone my skills I could very well have a future going from digs and sites drawing so I am kinda excited I just walked into this. Some of mine should be used for the work we are posting for my school so I will link it once it comes up which probably will not be for some weeks. Speaking of what we have found, we are amazed with how much pottery was found inside the main walls of the hillforts, and then alot around one side of it. We can tell where looting occured and where there has been none. Also, we are trying to really find out just where the Galatians lived, since all that remains IS the forts and we don't know if they moved around an area with wagons, used wooden houses or did they use the forts themselves all year round and not just as a time in emergency. But something amazing, we are finding a lot of lithic stuff which was something we were all caught of guard for and of all, a stone loom wieght. Now, this was found by chance, was made of a stone not native and was created in such a way that it needed high level of stone working and showed great advancement. We were all shocked as was Dr. Levent Vardar who may now have that particular site, Bayram, excavated. The place is a mess, since the fort is overgrown with trees and the walls are in shambles and rocks everywhere but the eviedence that there is so much lithic and stone tools and weapons raises so many questions. We've also been to Sabanozu and I can't remember the others but I shall post more when it comes avalible. Phil

Yeah I thought I was denied and so just forgot about it, I found out the group responsible for the publication were lazy asses this past semester and so did not even publish anything. So I still have a good chance come this fall... though... I might get published in another way, for illustrations I've been doing on this survey. Phil

you could try reading plinny the elder for more info. It has been put forth that since the earth undergoes a major climate change every 500 or so years, and this caused the massive influx in migrating peoples from the lands beyond Rome's borders and why there were a lot in the Republic and then starting again in the 3rd Century till the end of the 6th...

Spain wasn't considered more important... they were at the same level. Again, the reasoning varies, but from what I've seen it's that because the most important areas were Italy of course, Africa because of the grain, Illyricum because of the highways and communication routes b/w East and West and then the rest of the East. The rest of the empire was in a declining state hence why they were ignored so much and why even in the 3rd Century they were ignored to the extent that rival empires emerged. The Senate was still very influencial in the West, especially since they had an amazing wealth and could be more argued was richer than the state of Rome in the West... Stilicho was in power, de facto power, but he didn't go for the purple because one, logically, he would have no support being half-barbarian which is the most important factor and a reason for the Senate's hatred of him... and two, because I believe he was too loyal. The years of 378-410 are some of the most important and most interesting in Roman History from my view.

Ok, so I got my luggage like a day after my last update. I get a call from the security gate that it was dropped off in the middle of the night so me and a friend go to get it. It's a long, LONG trip but to keep things short, we end up getting picked up by Jandarma, which is the crack troops of Turkey. These guys offer us a lift, with the luggage, and they can't speak English and we can't speak Turkish but we can like use hand directions etc. The sgt. of the group was more interested in telling us how much American Women are hotter than Turkish Women and I wanted to disagree but I kept silent since all the guys in the back of the truck were smiling at me with thier rifles in hand. LoL. Um, we've done some siteseeing and actually stayed at a private villa just outside Soke for a couple nights so we could hit places like Priene, Heraklia, Ephesus etc. The villa was owned by a engineering prof at my school and he lent it to us for a couple days. I'll update you guys later on what work we've been doing etc and I must say Dr. Levent can DRINK and is awesome guy, he signs all the permits for digs in the country and is the head of the government archeology ministry or whatever and so we got to go to closed sites and get in other ones free. LoL. SO... I shall tell more later and I plan on trying to setup of a site so you can see all the videos I have made as well. L8r. Phil

Do I not also recall the Equites Singulares? Phil IIRC, they were the cavalry contingent of te PG and were in existance during the high empire days.

Again, as I said it was the policy of Theodosius to do that to a foe. Also, as I said, if Stilicho had committed completely to destroy Alaric then he would have had no army to defend against a new threat like Radigisus. Stilicho did not make Alraic, Theodoisus made Alaric and because he used the Goths as cannon fodder and then refused to give Alaric rewards for his service he created a terrible situation that would explode once he passed on. Afterward, the East, (either Rufinus or Eutropius), gave him the Roman title of Magister Militum per Illyricum which not only gave him legitmaticy, made him move West and attack Italy but allowed him to equip his army like that of a Roman one. Stilicho finally added the final touch when he gave him a military command and employed his army to fight Constantine III in Gaul. Gaul was in control of an ursuper, (a Roman), and was defended; and Stilicho followed the same actions of Theodosius that the regions of Spain, (despite he was from the area), Gaul and Britian were of secondary importance. I say he did not have the resources because Theodosius squandered so much in his second civil war which could have been completey avoided and in which HE created. Another Auerlian would not have come, because so long as weak child emperors ruled, the powerful generals could rule through them. Stilicho I agree made errors, and put to much in his position to try and secure guardianship over both East and West and this was his failing but I still think, after covering a lot of material on him, that his goals and actions were not all self-centered and were more geared to preserving the empire and to the loyalty of the Theodosius House. Again, I reiterate, if we are to call Stilicho a traitor for his actions then so should Theodosius be called one as well because it was simply a continuation of policy as Stilicho was groomed by Theodosius was his role as "Guardian". Rufinus was killed soon though and following him Eutropious acted the same way toward Stilicho and the West. It was more the administration of the East which despied the West, espeically a half-barbarian like Stilicho. I don't think his son could ever rule, unless Honorius died childless, (which he did because he was sterile), the Senate would never have allowed the Son of Theodosius to be displaced by the son of Stilicho despite his obvious blood relation to Theodosius. Again, I ask many of you to at least skim the sections on Stilicho in the books I have mentioned it will increase your knowledge of the period and the situation so much more even if you don't change your opinion on the ultimate case.

You are ignoring a key fact Kosmo. His actions toward Alaric were delebrite. He was following the policy set forth by Theodosius, that any barbarian force, (whether your enemy now or before), a potential ally against future barbarian threats. He was hoping to ring Alaric back into the treaty he had made with Theodoisus, (and he did but it was too late when he did). The actions of the courts of East and West, creating a cold war between the two was the most destructive thing possible. Alaric played off both sides against the other and benifited greatly and gave examples for later barbarian cheiftans to use and to aspire too. He was semibarbari... his mother was Roman, his father Vandal. He did a lot to defend the empire, he campaigned up the Rhine, and yes, he stripped the area to much which allowed Suvei, Vandals and Burgandians to invade but it was done to raise forces quickly to defeat Ragadgesus and his forces which were around Italy, which he decievely defeated. He was defending the important areas of the empire, Italy, Africa and the provinces b/w East and West. If you are calling Stilicho by his actions a tratior, than you should call Theodosius one as well, since his policy was what he used and he did the exact same actions. Calling one a tratior and the other not is bing hypocritical. I blame the faults of the late empire on Theodoisus because he left to young, inexperienced and ill-equppied sons on the thrones of the empire when the time demanded a strong, military leader to run the show. His civil wars could have been avoided, (especially the one against Arbogast and Eugenius), and I think that the empire would have recovered well had he completely acknowledged Maximus in the West and he in the East. Getting back to Stilicho, Kosmo, your comments are a perfect example of the bad press he gets which is most undeservedly. I would highly suggest you read, "Theodosius: The Empire at Bay", "Barbarians and Bishops", "The Rome that did not Fall", or "Generalissmos of the Western Roman Empire". All of them take the good, bad, and ugly of the situation which surrounded Stilicho and you are shown how he was quickly painted, (apocraflyly mind you), badly. Stilicho, focused too much I think on extending his guardianship over the East, especially in a time when there was an ursupation in the West. The final straw was when he forced the Senate to give in to the demands of Alaric, agree to make him a high Roman commander, (which the Eastern court had already done years before and gave him access to arms factory), and to pay him gold and money that would equal his new position. Mind you it was money that was EASILY within the pockets of any number of Roman Senators who were paid more than ten times the amount Alaric demanded yearly, but perish the thought they pay money out of thier own pockets. And so Alaric was now moving against Constantine III in Gaul and Stilicho's enemies struck, saying he sold out Rome, he was in league with Alaric and that now he's using a barbarian to kill and subdue a Roman ursuper. It should be noted that Stilicho never destroyed Alaric for another major tactical reason. Besides the point that he wished to use Alaric and his force for Rome's cause, he had at most 60,000 men to defend the West... if he committed his force, (which was smaller of course than the total amount avalable), he would have no army to defend against new threats and if he lost, no army to defend Italy. So, Stilicho I think was a man trying despretly to hold the Empire together, but he never had the resources he needed to get the job done and this I blame on Theodosius. (Again, might be some time before I reply).

If it is too much to fast... they will change the culture... that is a valid statement and arguement and one applied to Late Rome... so I can see that as having water.

Oh yeah... lost luggage and these people have no way to contact me... alright! hahaha... It's almost 10pm here... damn I feel like it's 12pm... gonna take a while to get used to the time change. Phil

The Vandals were able to cross the pillars of Hercules, (Gibralter) and take Carthage, (after mind you they had made a treaty with Rome saying they would not expand further than the land they had but after 10 years an oppurtunity allowed them to take Carthago itself). The Vandals were Germanic and nothing at all like Carthage of old... and they would control the region of Africa and Sciliy until the Roman re-conquest of Justinian in the early 6th century.

No... I say no, because he was so loyal to the Theodosian Family and owed everything he had to it. I think he considered because Honorius was sterile and he had already married his first daughter Maria to Honorius but there was no children at all by it and then his second daugther Thermantia... and again no children but I don't see it as a real thing he would've went through since he would have gone against the Theodoisian line, against his father-in-laws family. Had a son been born, things would have been very different in the West and the empire as a whole, he was the last guardian of a united empire or at least was trying hard to do so. Several modern scholars have taken a hard line against him, saying he sold out the empire, while other scholars completely disagree and I think prove a better case that his actions were geared toward safeguarding as much of the empire as possible and mainly the areas of the empire that really mattered. Italy, Africa, Illryicum, Macedonia, Greece and then the East. Gaul, Britain and Hispania were second rate provinces to men ruling, and were ignored, so another reason why the Senate wanted Stilicho was killed was because he allowed Gaul to be ravaged and many of the Senate had huge extensive estates in the region. I think in the end, he threw is all his eggs in one basket to make his bid for the East, to unite the empire and it failed. Personally, I don't think he had the resources he needed to accomplish all his goals or adiquitely defend the empire. His supporters to dwindled... Claudian had died as did Ambrose who was his greatest support I think and who supported the claim that he had guardianship over both sons not just Honorius. And in the end, he allowed his enemies to get to Honorius and turn them against him. At his death, Alraic was a Roman Commander and paid the money that would be given to such a commander and for a 'Roman Army', he was going to use him then against the ursuper Constantine III in Gaul, but the Senate had had enough, how he employed Alaric and his barbarians as Romans to fight other Romans and yet this is the EXACT same policy that Theodoisus used. The idea that any barbarian group could be a potential enemy against another barbarian group even if they are your current enemy. In the end, I think he is still getting a bad rap, (more so than my views on Valens cause I admit he f***ed up), but Stilicho was a man who did what he did for he felt in his eyes was the best for Rome... with more time, the negativeness of his actions are being reviewed and you can make an excellent arguement that he did not and never had designs to 'sell out' the empire. (FYI, it might be some time before I respond to anyone... curse you Honorius I would love this topic why did you have to wait till I left the country!! )

So here I am sitting at an internet cafe in Ankara... and I'm having fun but a little pissed off... mainly because Turkish Airlines LEFT my luggage in the USA... and I HOPEFULLY will have it by tomorrow... Other than that... I must say that thus far... DAMN! Tis a very beautiful country where 8/9 or 10 women at random are very nice... so I am even more inclined to hit the bars tonight. Also, I've been taking so many pics and videos... and having a blast. Bilkent University is a huge campus and the temp, is great because up here in the mountains it is so different compared to my usual sea-level living. We should be hitting the field Friday... tomorrow I think we are hitting the museums at downtown Ankara... we all spent today sleeping since we had around 14hrs on a plane then 10 more hours of travel by land and we were smoked so... Other than that... I must say I really like this country... the people, (thus far) have been really nice and the whole atmosphere is great. They drive like maniacs though... puts ANYTHING I have seen to shame... we were in a taxi yesterday and the driver is like... "It is very dangerous to drive in Turkey..." then suddenly he just sped up and was weaving in out of traffic on the highway... we all just buckled up and prayed... cause... you need to be REALLY aggressive to get anywhere here. I also found it odd and funny how I could buy a handgun for 55 lira and then get a haircut and eat at the same place... hahaha. So... I hope to add more sometime... but who knows. Till then... ttyl. Phil

If you are reading this I am most likely either finishing up packing or on a plane out of the country going to Turkey. Some of you, know this already but this is for everyone... as of 1pm Central Time I will flying out of O'Hare International headed to JFK, then from NYC to Istanbul, (Not Constantinople), (+4 awesome points to whomever gets the reference first), and I will not be returning until July 10th. I am going, along with a professor of mine and about 9 other students, to work alongside my Prof's collegue on Galatian Hillforts from the Hellenistic period in and around the city of Ankara. We will be covering, something like 50km worth of sites and a couple he just found in Cappadocia to the East of Ankara. Surveying and a little excavation as well as mapping for GPS satalites everything we find, (sites and such since no maps exist to date). Once that is done, we will travel to the Ionian Coast and Ephesus, Halicarnisus, Sardis and other sites and then into Caria to see some rural areas my Prof knows which were visited and sieged by Alexander the Great. From there after so many days, we'll head north to Illium, (Troy), then spend the last days in Nova Roma, Constantinople, Istanbul or Isargrad, depending on how you wish to view/call it. I plan to have A LOT of pictures, (I can take up to 1280 LoL). So... all, wish me luck and safe passage. I do look forward to seeing some of the greatest Mosques in all of Islam and seeing the greatest Christian Church ever constructed, (the Hagia Sophia), back in the 530's. I may or may not have some time on the internet, since for a while we will be based at Bilkent University outside Ankara, and I would assume they have access. Also I am not sure how I will be spending the 4th of July....so... I need to think of how to celebrate our nation's B-Day when I am on the otherside of the world. I hope to come back and be able to write up something for UNRV on what was accomplished and learned on such an elusive people... Well... back to finishing the last of my packing... Salve! Phil

Wow.... I'm not exactly sure how to respond to this.

The Union of Naughty Romanophile Vixens. Or at least I can dream. I love how you think Ursus... Viggen, PP... any room on the site for such a group?

Something sexual is the first thought I had when I read that they took a videotape as evidence. It could also be something related to pirating... Funny story... my freshman year at Purdue in the Dorms, on a Sunday Morning during "Parents Weekend" two FBI agents came to our floor and went to a friends room down the hall way. They woke up his RM and finding the guy not there, stayed in the room for him to come back. Upon his return, with his parents present, they siezed all of his computer hardware and compents, all of his CD's and DVD's and charged him with illegal distribution of copyrighted material. Apparently, he was part of this large group they'd been trying to crack down on and he got off with a slap on the wrist because he gave up several higher member people of the group.

Yeah, if your average julio-claudian arrived in modern times, the would probably be shoked by the lack of decadence. Though they may feel at home in Amsterdam Or since obesity was once a sign of vast wealth, perhaps he'd be stunned by the huge numbers of incredibly wealthy people shopping at Walmart. That's just wrong PP... Ursus, you think it's old? For back to back Political Science classes over the course of a couple semesters I had to deal with Lecturers and Profs who loved compared the US to Rome. I felt like shooting myself...

The Cato v JC topic is tired? Now why would you say something like that? See what makes that even funnier is the fact it's some Victorian age picture animation...

Reading this I was reminded how stirrups were still not invented yet. I have to wonder exactly how heavy cavalry worked in antiquity when you had to use interlocking straps of some sort, then add the armor and the armor for the horse...

Wow... I swear you seem to be all over the world. I've never seen some one travel so much... hope all the trips have been fun.