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Question on Florida teacher's exam: "If you have eighteen pencils and take away three..."

In Massachusetts, in order to increase the number of teachers passing the exam, the passing score was lowered.

 

Question on Florida teacher's exam: "If you have eighteen pencils and take away three..." dry.gif

In Massachusetts, in order to increase the number of teachers passing the exam, the passing score was lowered.

 

Seems to me they do similar things with the tests students have to take.

 

I think it was in eighth grade, one of our standardized tests contained the question "what is the sum of 2 and 3". Now, if you are in the 8th grade (meaning your 9th year of schooling usually) you really should be able to answer that question. If you can't answer that question, you should not have passed 4th grade. People still failed.

 

In one health class I was in, the teacher got up in front of the class and "reviewed" with us. Basically reading everything off of the test (in order!!) and giving us the answers. We were permitted to take notes on what he said. We were then permitted to use these notes on the test. And work with a partner! And if we did not work with a partner, we were permitted to use the textbook! PEOPLE STILL FAILED!! how is this happening? I don't know how anyone can be that dumb! I mean, he gave us the answers, let us write them down, and let us use them on the test!

It absolutely blows my friggin mind when people fight so hard to keep this system, or think that pouring more money into it will somehow fix the situation.

 

From this book:

Children are made to see, through school experiences, that their classmates are so cruel and irresponsible, so inadequate to the task of self-discipline, and so ignorant they need to be controlled and regulated for society

You know, I hate what our schooling does to people. Schooling is the government's way of keeping society "in line". That is why they make such an effort to make sure that "no child is left behind". Because those who don't conform...are dangerous.

 

It makes me sick.

It makes me sick.

Indeed. The quoted poem makes me sick. Multiple readings will bring out the underlying meanings. I felt a lot of suicidal hopelessness in my late teens because even though I had an incredible desire to learn, I absolutely despised school and viewed my failures there as failures in life - a message beaten into every childs head. In my mind, my will to succeed and my inability to function on a scholastic level seemed to be a direct contradiction. I mean, I knew that I was capable of excelling if I had the will to do so. I inevitably blamed and hated myself for this. After all, the children are the ones that recieve permanently recorded failure grades for their inadequacy... schools can't fail at educating them... right?

 

Anger, of all things, has fortunately led me to do a lot of things that ultimately destroyed my pre-concieved mental barriers. Anger itself does not equal hatred and has the potential to be one of the most positive of forces.

I agree. I loved learning, and still do. I'm tired of the school system, but there were some parts of it I really enjoyed. Not the system itself, which I despise, but some of the classes I had and such, I really enjoyed. I never really tried hard at school, never studied much, never actually did my homework at home, and always did well. The way I saw it, the gods gifted me with the ability to get through that drivel easily so that I'd have time to do the more important things.

 

I hate to see people who believe that school is all there is. Parents do not help with this. My parents always encouraged me to do other things. Some people, I notice, force their children to do school clubs, sports, music, everything crammed into one day. It's no wonder the kids are exhausted!

I attended a private school for a number of years and I did extremely well during that time. I actually achieved very decent grades in public schools up until my later highschool years when I completely lost interest in going to school. I still managed to get accepted to the engineering department at the Univeristy of Colorado, but I changed my major to earth sciences in an attempt to compensate for my lack of any motivation to sit in a classroom and do the same crap I had done for the last 12 years. It really didn't make a difference and I soon dropped out. I was just glad to get the hell out of the small town I grew up in.

 

If I had the same frame of mind when I was young that I do now, I'd currently be about 6 years (or more) ahead of where I am, career-wise. How powerful do you think corporations would be if teenage kids regulary became entrepreneurs and produced and learned by their own will and with an unsupressed passion? This iwas a reality that existed in the early days of America, that has now been choked almost to death. "Overproduction" was the label given to it - millions of independent humans passionately following their own dream. It severely limited big business. It's no wonder that Rockefeller and Carnegie heavily funded mass schooling.

I attended a private school for a number of years and I did extremely well during that time. I actually achieved very decent grades in public schools up until my later highschool years when I completely lost interest in going to school. I still managed to get accepted to the engineering department at the Univeristy of Colorado, but I changed my major to earth sciences in an attempt to compensate for my lack of any motivation to sit in a classroom and do the same crap I had done for the last 12 years. It really didn't make a difference and I soon dropped out. I was just glad to get the hell out of the small town I grew up in.

 

That's part of the reason why I'm not currently going to college. I'm sick of sitting around in school all of the time, and I don't know what I want to do with my life, so I'm not going to pay thousands of dollars for an education in a field that I will later find I have no interest in, and basically throw all that $$ away while still not having the education I desire.

 

If I had the same frame of mind when I was young that I do now, I'd currently be about 6 years (or more) ahead of where I am, career-wise. How powerful do you think corporations would be if teenage kids regulary became entrepreneurs and produced and learned by their own will and with an unsupressed passion? This iwas a reality that existed in the early days of America, that has now been choked almost to death. "Overproduction" was the label given to it - millions of independent humans passionately following their own dream. It severely limited big business. It's no wonder that Rockefeller and Carnegie heavily funded mass schooling.

 

I never thought of it that way! Of course, I wasn't born until 1988 so I really didn't experience that or even know of it.

So much of what you both say is true. But take it from an old jerk, you can't keep punching and kicking the world. There have to be and there are rules. If you want to play in the game of life, you have to play by the rules of your elders who often are your betters. Whether you like it or not, 'spinach' is good for you. I joke about being drunk in school yesteryear but I cry in my beer today.

I'll keep punching and kicking as long as I can. The rules I don't want are the ones created by the people who think that freedom should be forfieted in order to create a specifically controlled and designed society. Common good, my ass. I just want individual rights, not to have individual rights given to some entity, corporate/state/whatever, and have the latter supercede the former.

 

I think that people, with all possible information available to them and without an institution to psychologically condition them, will come to this conclusion. Just a hunch, I guess. So basically I want a true education system (not a school institution which mimics hierarchical prison), which means the parents teach or decide who teaches their children, and without any censorship of information. I firmly believe in the rational capabilities of the human mind, no matter what the supposed 'intelligence quotient', when it is given its own freedom.

I am not arguing against the essence of what you hold. Yet, one cannot leave it to a 15 year old, much less a 5 year old, to make these decisions. The experience and knowledge of their elders must be used to guide youngsters. College is the place for 'liberty'. I had a prof who held that a mind did not begin to mature till age 35. 'Freedom' has its concomitant; 'obligation'.

 

In re your Ayn Rand post. Agreed, save for the author's lack of knowledge (or purposeful obfuscation) with regard to the history of the Jesuits. They were and are an ornery lot (and at one time were almost chucked out of the Church). For example, they led the way in Central and South America's march toward democracy with their "Liberation(?) Theology". The Papacy didn't go for that bit.

A fifteen year old hundreds or thousands of years ago was much more intelligent in matters of "real life" than a fifteen year old is today since the advent of this "universal education". What does that say to you?

 

I'll keep punching and kicking as long as I can. smile.gif The rules I don't want are the ones created by the people who think that freedom should be forfieted in order to create a specifically controlled and designed society. Common good, my ass. I just want individual rights, not to have individual rights given to some entity, corporate/state/whatever, and have the latter supercede the former.

 

I agree "Those who would sacrifce essential liberty for temporary security deserve neither"...and that is just what we are being taught to do.

Parents/guardians need to play a direct role in education. That is what it means to be a parent.

Parents/guardians need to play a direct role in education. That is what it means to be a parent.

Here here

Exactly.

I am not arguing against the essence of what you hold. Yet, one cannot leave it to a 15 year old, much less a 5 year old, to make these decisions. The experience and knowledge of their elders must be used to guide youngsters. College is the place for 'liberty'. I had a prof who held that a mind did not begin to mature till age 35. 'Freedom' has its concomitant; 'obligation'.

 

Reminds me of an incredibly revelant passage in this book.

Universal institutionalized formal forced schooling was the prescription, extending the dependency of the young well into what had traditionally been early adult life. Individuals would be prevented from taking up important work until a relatively advanced age. Maturity was to be retarded.

 

During the post-Civil War period, childhood was extended about four years. Later, a special label was created to describe very old children. It was called adolescence, a phenomenon hitherto unknown to the human race. The infantilization of young people didn’t stop at the beginning of the twentieth century; child labor laws were extended to cover more and more kinds of work, the age of school leaving set higher and higher. The greatest victory for this utopian project was making school the only avenue to certain occupations. The intention was ultimately to draw all work into the school net. By the 1950s it wasn’t unusual to find graduate students well into their thirties, running errands, waiting to start their lives.

 

How many articles have you read about the current crop of college graduates who now leach off their parents... I recall reading at least two in the past year.

 

I don't think that schools per se are wrong. I think that parents should have a choice about who is influencing their children, and how. Obviously, a school that can educate children to post graduate levels by the time they are 18 would do a lot of business. Other schools would innovate to try to get the same reasults with less overhead or do a more thorough job for the same cost. I am against the monopolization of schools much like I would be against government-backed monopolization of food sources.

After long reflection , I have to say what an excellent link this is.

It's taking me a while to get through it, I like to find additional information on the covered topics as I read.